I figured a lot of people on the site would be interested in my strategy. I began playing about 2 years ago at college in live games and really developed a deep passion for the game. After a long live game successful run I decided to really give this poker thing a try and I took up my first online endeavor. At first I played the micro stakes like 2 NL and gradually moved up and up till I turned into the game I am today, big jump I skipped a lot of rough times but whatever. The bottom line is my strat in 2 years ive earned somewhere in the range of 40 to 50 thousand dollars playing limits only as high as 2/4 and occassionally higher on rare occasions. Those occasions were usually the low points of my career where I was down a lot looking for quick recoveries. I haven't always followed the good guidelines of success and play out of my bankroll frequently, However I have lived off poker for over 2 years. My strategy has evolved many many times but I believe it works very very well.
Basically first I went from 10 man tables to 6 man tables, where the action is quicker and the calls are looser, secondly I decided to play turbo tables on battlefield poker where u have 7 seconds to act. The calls you will get there are beyond ridiculous.

First the playlist, I modified the playlist a few times but it basically this in the 6 man rooms. AA - 22 always to almost any initial raise every fold some to reraises if strong indication of being dominated. Suited hands, A x suited anything, suited QK , KJ , K 10 , K 9, QJ , Q 10, Q 9 , J 9 , 10 9 , 9 8 , 8 7 , 7 6,
5 6 , 5 4 , 4 3 , and 2 3 suited occasionally. I usually only raise AA, KK , QQ , JJ and AK and AQ in good positions but generally limp. My strat is based on always winning and when you raise AQ and AK preflop heavily you have to make moves on the pot consistently and some nights it just does not work. To play to live you have to win every single night if possible, my lose rate is about 10% if I am playing well.

Second off always always overbet, never ever trap on dangerous boards, never trap period. People are retarded online, most almost all players are heros so if you are constantly overbetting when it seems pointless you will get called eventually, dont worry this works trust me. Target weak players and put them to giant giant decisions. Playing these 7 second to act rooms they will almost always make the wrong decision. The key is to be so aggressive that you bet so much that no one ever sees your hand, people get really mad at this and eventually call, but do not be aggressive with any hand less then 2 pair. If you flop a set bet out hard no matter the board, bet draws really hard, stuff like that.

Third point, NEVER BE PASSIVE. There is nothing worst then people who just call call call call. Sorry IMO passive people have no skill at all. Avoid this at all costs, with this strat u are always leading hand so when people reraise you its a almost a given you are beaten, forget about fancy plays here you are play to live, you want as many cut and dried decisions as you can get.

The key I would say is overbetting agaisnt weak players, look for them, put them to hard decisions and never ever play tournament poker, pushing all in prelfop with AK or something in cash games stuff like that. Tight aggressive players can outplay almost anyone, dont take that advantage away from yourself.

I have also recently discovered rakeback oppurtunities that have increased my profits as well. Basically by 20 K a year if I play frequently soon to increase. The site in my signature has good links to this and eventually I will be writing articles on my strat and highlight profit charts and excel graphs. I just wish to inform people some about my strat and will definetly go into it more in my articles.

Always lead, fire hard, dont trap ever, CUT and DRIED decisions u want them, bet hand straight up, play the list and have very good judgment. Remember when your raised using this strat you are beat, and finally if you are at all skeptical about rakeback I can help you with that too.

Anyone post their thoughts, I feel free to take criticism or to explain certain reasoning, I just have been very successful with my strat after short playing time and should have much more saved if I wasn't Irresponsible at first. GL GUYS

TPMM

What does that mean?

TPMM, itis fine if people doubt me its a little hard to swallow, but I have Excel sheets of all my progress, and everything documented, my aim is to just help people play a little bit better, and get them away from this passive nonsense that is running rampant. I can help people ALWAYS WIN, just takes a little concentration and dicipline. I also wish to inform people about rakeback and help them put some consistent money in their pockets. I already live off this game , but I guess you need a high post count to be respected at this place. Anyway anyone let me know your thoughts.

SAPS/MM


Thats for you Zimm.

Really getting some gay responses, good job guys.

Turn straight, make babies

lol no wonder this forum sux, everyone makes dumb pointless posts that contribute nothing to this site. Anyone have anything decent to comment on?

Um, that You're spamming the board, and wrapping it in a "strat" post.

I am not spamming the board, I am telling people how to win very very consistently and how to live off this game, I hardly consider that spamming, its a strategy. I make 40-50 thousand off 1/2 NL. Everyone has to hate on everything, its so pathethic. I was merely sharing my great success and looking to help people out. People are so rude and pointless on forums. If you don't like it and you wanna sit back and be skeptical fine thats all good , I don't care, just dont ruin peoples good posts with random condescending nonsense.

dynon this was a very good post and because you had you had your rakeback info as your signature these wise asses thinking they are clever automatically assume your motive was to try hook some more rakeback refferals

this advice has been given to me aswell and its perfectly applicable to a typical shorthanded nl game below as an estimate 5-10

bottom line is dynon is a good guy and is willing to help you guys interested in teaching you a way to beat these games so you up not jump to conclusions about his motives for posting this advice and thinking you are clever


seriously, posting tp/mm how orginial is that ?

maybe people didn't like the OP because people generally ask questions on the forum instead of saying "here's a post with all the answers"

his post gives very general advice "don't be passive" and "always overbet the pot." i think forum member would respond better if you made a post about one of these ideas and explained why and when it is appropriate. for example, maybe post a hand you played and talk about the merits of overbetting vs betting the pot. that post could generate a lot of good discussion.

it is hard for a post like this one to generate good discussion because it is so broad. unless i write a 500 word reply, i can't adequately respond to the whole thing, and it is much easier (if less original) to type "TP/MM."

Anyway, I hope the OP isn't too deterred. Maybe you should start off by reading the NL forum and responding to threads there. Also make some posts about hands you played that are interesting. I'm sure people will let you know what they disagree with. That way you can discuss your system in bits and pieces.

Yes I read that far. That's called spamming (when it's in an original post, not sig). I don't know, Your intentions might be good, but not too fond of the spam .

I read the whole post.




Orginial sounds dirty.


Hee

Hee

STFU!! This is what I do..

Well generally on this site there are a few players that dictacte acceptable strategy, hardly ever do I see someone post a strategy that differs from the generally accepted ABC poker.

The merits of this strategy are simple. You are overbetting strong hands frequently in situations where most players are going to get very angry. It is very read oriented thought and you need to be extremely good to use it. Say that you flop top 2 pair UTG, most players would check and pull some fancy reraise on the turn. If they are more then 4 outs that could plausible destroy your hand I would recommend betting. People always find themselves in terrible situations because they checked the flop. It is much better to always always lead the hand. By being aggressive other players get very aggravated with you and when you are raised it strongly indicates you are beat. Eventually someone makes a stand. Also say the flop is 8 9 J rainbow and you are holding 10 Q UTG, bet hard!. People are really stupid, the 10 is sure to call you, people never fold top pair, you have to put weak players to TOUGH DECISIONS. They always make the wrong decision, you have to attack weak players.

The other day I was playing I called a raise with A 10, the flop was 10 10 10. Four people called and I made it 54 UTG in a 1/2 room after raises preflop. The first player was holding a PP and raised me immediately. The second player was weak and obviously determined no one would do that with a 10 they would want to get paid, he reraised and I reraised and I won a 600+ pot with quads, had I checked the flop and done some shady just call maneuver my winnings would have been much less, its just a very obvious play, granted on some boards I would sometimes recommend trapping but if you know a weak player has a tough hand to fold forget about trapping get paid! If you have a low boat keep betting the draws will call, hell you see Ace high calling huge bets on the river just to get his 2 dollars back , people are very uneducated by the game. Plus when people see you betting the nuts UTG on a rainbow board you tend to catch a lot more free cards, cause they are deafly afraid of you. Your table image is great, people really hate you cause they can't play fancy poker. and people make stands at the wrong time. You know when your hand is good it is made clear on a regular basis and it you have self control you are unbeatable unless that you get outdrawn.

Also I would almost always put people on the ideal drawing when you are overbetting. If the draw hits, DO NOT CALL VALUE BETS. Just fold, if you are not leading you are not winning. If flop is 10 J 4 and ur betting AJ hard and river is 9 and someone bets huge fold they have QK, why bother wait till the next idiot calls you down. Leading the hand is the main key to this strategy. You have to have great judgment and on certain boards you always take small stab raises to try to steal the pot, but nothing huge so you can get out easily.

Dynon,

Here's a hand I played last night where I turned a boat. I guess according to your strat I should make a big turn bet. Maybe you can reply to that thread and say how you would play it.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=37883

Man I wish you would shut up.. I've been doing this for years... shhhhhh plz!!!

Actually Tim I would say you played that hand very very well. You keep betting even though you basically were positive you had to best hand and people kept calling you. This is the betting your hand straight up part. If the person called you on the flop with an ace he is seriously doubting the fact you had an eight. Most likely he called you with a flush draw and just missed, so your bet was good because if he rivered club it is certain he would call your almost in. That was a good play man, a lot of players would check and let the other guy try to catch a card.

You shouldn't worry to much BigD lol. Most people have a great creative intuition and they like to experiement with much more fancy play styles. It takes too much discpline to play this strategy for most people, this is just a lay back and let the cash roll in style when you gotta put pay some bills.

lol i suck at holdem...

i have no clue as to how much to bet in certain situations...

I have a tendancy to underbet the pot or overbet the pot...

To much random stuff going on for me lol...

Yeah, I've experimented with other styles.. but they suck..

Or maybe I do, and this style is just so damn easy...

I also like to needle people, and show when I'm betting my draw once in a while, and laugh at them.. or make a positon bluff, just a small, nothining bluff, but laugh at people for folding andstuff... piss people off..they call big bets when they are pissed..

Yeah, I tend to make 3/4 to pot sizzed bets.. if I have a monster hand, and some one else has shown streght, I over bet, pot sized or larger..


Here's another thing.. making a pot sized bet on a draw on the flop, or turn if no one bets a flop, does two things.. it misrepresents your hand, and It builds a pot for if you hit.. 'cause if some fish is slow playing, as fish often do, they won't know what hit them when I hit my straight..

Notice how I mispresented my monster hand by raising on the flop.. no one with a full house raises on the flop, right? Wrong

edit posted thewrong hand.. getting the right one..

***** Hand History for Game 3066946857 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 20, 15:56:07 EDT 2005
Table Table 68409 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: forkedick ( $106.25 )
Seat 5: bigDMcgee ( $98.90 )
Seat 3: Jersungod ( $42.90 )
Seat 7: Fondo ( $60.35 )
Seat 1: dennnycrane ( $53.40 )
Seat 6: grillkorven ( $18.25 )
Seat 8: billybob545 ( $45.75 )
Seat 9: VladTaltoss ( $48.25 )
Seat 2: schilles007 ( $12.35 )
Seat 10: ktooz12 ( $24.45 )
dennnycrane posts small blind [$0.25].
schilles007 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bigDMcgee [ 6c 5d ]
Jersungod calls [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 65891 Table!.
bigDMcgee calls [$0.50].
grillkorven folds.
billybob545 folds.
VladTaltoss folds.
ktooz12 folds.
dennnycrane calls [$0.25].
Tell a friend about PartyPoker.com and earn $50 & 1000 Party Points. Your friend receives $25!
schilles007 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 6h, 5h ]
dennnycrane checks.
schilles007 checks.
Jersungod bets [$0.50].
bigDMcgee raises [$2].
dennnycrane folds.
schilles007 folds.
Jersungod calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
Jersungod bets [$2].
bigDMcgee raises [$6].
Jersungod calls [$4].
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
Jersungod checks.
bigDMcgee bets [$35].
Jersungod is all-In [$34.40]
bigDMcgee shows [ 6c, 5d ] a full house, Sixes full of fives.
Jersungod doesn't show [ Jh, Ac ] two pairs, jacks and sixes.
bigDMcgee wins $0.60 from side pot #1 with a full house, Sixes full of fives.
bigDMcgee wins $83.80 from the main pot with a full house, Sixes full of fives.

***** Hand History for Game 3066980878 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 20, 16:02:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 68409 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: forkedick ( $105.25 )
Seat 5: bigDMcgee ( $139.05 )
Seat 7: Fondo ( $60.35 )
Seat 1: dennnycrane ( $52.60 )
Seat 6: grillkorven ( $12.50 )
Seat 8: billybob545 ( $53.35 )
Seat 9: VladTaltoss ( $48.45 )
Seat 2: schilles007 ( $17.35 )
Seat 10: ktooz12 ( $22.25 )
Seat 3: charzy ( $45.25 )
ktooz12 posts small blind [$0.25].
dennnycrane posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bigDMcgee [ Kc Kd ]
schilles007 raises [$1].
charzy raises [$5].
>You have options at Table 65891 Table!.
forkedick folds.
bigDMcgee raises [$55].
grillkorven folds.
billybob545 folds.
VladTaltoss folds.
ktooz12 folds.
dennnycrane: lol....little extremme
dennnycrane folds.
schilles007 folds.
charzy is all-In [$40.25]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 3c, Jc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
dennnycrane: bust him charzy
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
bigDMcgee shows [ Kc, Kd ] two pairs, kings and threes.
charzy doesn't show [ 5d, 5h ] two pairs, fives and threes.
bigDMcgee wins $9.75 from side pot #1 with two pairs, kings and threes.
bigDMcgee wins $89.25 from the main pot with two pairs, kings and threes.

and here's another.. this hand happened right after the kK hand, which iswhy Ilimped with aces.. I figured I'd get no preflopaction if I made my usually huge preflop raise with AA

***** Hand History for Game 3066986555 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, November 20, 16:03:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 68409 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: forkedick ( $105.25 )
Seat 5: bigDMcgee ( $183.05 )
Seat 7: Fondo ( $60.35 )
Seat 1: dennnycrane ( $52.10 )
Seat 6: grillkorven ( $12.50 )
Seat 8: billybob545 ( $53.35 )
Seat 9: VladTaltoss ( $48.45 )
Seat 2: schilles007 ( $16.35 )
Seat 10: ktooz12 ( $22 )
Seat 3: charzy ( $0 )
dennnycrane posts small blind [$0.25].
schilles007 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bigDMcgee [ Ah Ad ]
forkedick folds.
>You have options at Table 65891 Table!.
charzy: nh
bigDMcgee calls [$0.50].
grillkorven folds.
billybob545 folds.
VladTaltoss folds.
ktooz12 folds.
dennnycrane calls [$0.25].
schilles007 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 4s, 6s ]
dennnycrane checks.
schilles007 checks.
bigDMcgee bets [$2].
dennnycrane folds.
schilles007 calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
schilles007 checks.
bigDMcgee bets [$15].
schilles007 is all-In [$13.85]
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
bigDMcgee shows [ Ah, Ad ] a pair of aces.
schilles007 doesn't show [ Ts, Qs ] high card queen.
bigDMcgee wins $1.15 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
bigDMcgee wins $31.55 from the main pot with a pair of aces.

I'm on a heater, in case you were wondering..

But notice how extreme over betting worked in each of the three cases. the first case was on the flop, turn but mostly the huge over bet on the river, that he couldn't resist calling with AJ.. I know he wanted to call, so he might as well call it all..

The KK hand, I made a huge, Smashesque raise.. notice how the fish bits with 55.. you'd be SHOCKED how much fish bite with inferior hands when you have KK AA.. your'e not playing negraneu or greenstien.. no need to trap.


The AA hand, I thought he was drawing, and I wasn't sure to what, so Iwanted him to pay the max for it.. I also thought he might get mairred to a pair..

BigD me and you are like clones lol, I only see minor differences.

I told ya.. but since you let the cat out the bag, I'll share too..

Basically this style generated from swings I obtained early when I thought my skills were at their pinnacle. I often found myself yelling at people for calling with certain hands in bad situations. My plays were often exposed because the other players just didnt have the control to lay down their hands. I experience swings in high stakes cause I tried to outplay weak players constantly and I just got called. The biggest mistake I feel you can make as a player is to overestimate the skill of your opponents. If you are raising AK and getting mad at people for calling with KJ and 10 A and stuff you'll never survive, you have to accept other people's shortcomings. Be careful at overestimating other people's judgment.

THis is so true... people fall inlove with Fancy play syndrome...


in that thread that econo tim posted, akishoe, whom I do respect, saied that you should bet 30, or even 20, 'cause you're trying to get your opponent to re raise..

While at higher limits, this may be a good play, at low limit it stinks..


There's a large gap between what fish will call with, and what they will re raise with. Only a certain kind of low limit maniac will push you hard, or a skilled player. Most fishes biggest mistake is they call too much. And they call WAY too big of bets, 'cause they think you're bluffing ( and certain kinds of players making big overbets certainly are)... players want to call. Like in that 56 hand.. they guy in chat said this " I had AJ.. I knew you had it.. I just couldn't resist calling..

This is the core of it, folks.. fish just can't help themselves... people leave money on the table all the time. by not getting real value.. sure, I could have made a small, value bet against AJ, for about 6 bucks... he would have called that 100 percent of the time... but I thought there was about a 60 percent chance he'd call his stack.. I risk 6 sure dollars to win 34 dollars. Yum Yum..

I am a fish.

Board of 979 and I'm holding J9... guy ahead of me overbets the pot and I think "pocket 7's? no way someone would overbet the pot after he's flopped a boat." I raise with my trips, he re-raises all-in and I call like the donkey that I am. He was holding 77's.

Conversely, I've done this to other people all the time. I think the OP is mostly right on. Fish watch poker on tv and take away two things:
1. Poker is all about bluffing
2. Poker is all about slowplaying
I love flopping TPTK in 1st position and just betting it the whole way down. At showdown there's this total disbelief: "I just didn't believe you had the ace." Or when someone else is betting and you raise them on every street and at showdown they're stunned that you had exactly what you represented.

Plus here's the thing with small stakes poker: you have to find what constitutes a small, medium, and large bet to the table. Conventional poker wisdom says to raise PF 3-5x the BB. This amounts to peanuts in small stakes poker and raising 5x the BB means you'll still see 50% to a flop with holdings like T7, J5, etc and of course: anything soooted. What this means on the flop is this: betting the pot means anyone on a flush draw is technically priced out. This is meaningless online. Find the amount that is large enough to make it hurt, but small enough that they still want to call. This latter is significantly higher than what rational people are first inclined to think: fish calling all-in on gutshots and 5-high flush draws should be expected. So bet bet bet.

Also, as already stated earlier in the thread: fish love to check and call. So if a fish is going out of his way to advertise strength: believe it. You may have the nut straight and think "there's no way he just hit his flush"... yeah, he just did.

It doesn't take much to win at low limits, and I can see how the smash everything strategy would get you money playing .25/.50 NL hold 'em, but that's just because the people playing at those levels are terrible at poker.

As you move up limits, you'll find the key is believability. I bet around half the pot almost every time, regardless of whether it's a simple continuation bet, whether I'm betting a draw, or whether I'm betting top set. In certain situations on later streets, you might be able to sneak in a little bit of an overbet, but on the flop at least, you need to be concealing your hand. It's amazing how often stealing a couple pots with continuation bets will get automatic calldowns to the river with something like middle pair.

Honestly though, showing us some jackass that calls an overbet with queen high doesn't really prove anything.

If you're going to make money at the higher limits, you have to be able to read hands. True, there are no physical tells online, but the amount bet, the time taken to make a bet, etc., etc., all give you information on the strength of your opponent's hand. Sometimes, you need to realize that your opponent's definitely on a flush draw, and go ahead and call that overbet with top pair when a low card pairs on the river.

I'm not talking about moving up in limits, I'm talking how to easily and consistatnly beat lower limits for as much as you possibly can. The biggest mistake good players make at low limit NL, is not extracting the maxium from bad players. And again, over betting the nuts, or very strong hands, often does disguise your hand, because no one believes you.... everyone wants to be a hero.. particularly if you bet big draws the same way.

People seem to be afraid of the higher limit rooms. I don't feel the quality of play is that much greater up there. I get impressed online when people fold top pair. People folding 2 pair is unimaginable. Terrible plays are made consistently in the high stakes room, I often found myself watching the high stakes room for hours when I played low stakes and thinking wow this is pathethic. Its almost hard to watch those rooms and not join in. When you play low stakes limits the people are all passive and afraid of everything and losing money. Then you move to .5/1 and 1/2 its people from low stakes with something to prove. Testosterone is flying plays are monumentally complicated, its almost comical. Then you get to high stakes and the people have infinite money, they dont fear big bets at all, all they see it as is money they can win. Just very different atmosphere but I never went to high stakes rooms and felt outmatched.

In fact, I think people are more able to over play their hand or their draw, and it's easier to make them make big, big mistakes..

Great thread.

Your strategy doesn't seem to make any sense at all. You say you win by being tight and aggressive, but you overbet the pot with top pair, play a very loose list and reraise everything? You say you like the lightning fast tables but what happens when you are the one put to the tough decision? Do you just reraise over the top and pray for the best?

You only raise 4 hands preflop really, AA KK QQ and JJ and occassionally AK suited. The hands you overbet are top pair top kicker, top 2 pair, the nuts, and sets. You never dance around in pots you should and you don't call raises with weak hands like AJ suited and such only PP's. All the hands on the list you call with but you never raise them. You don't really reraise cause ur always the one leading, if you get raised you are beat. Its like if the flop is 9 10 Q and you have K J, u bet pretty hard out on the flop like 1.5 to 2X pot. Its just you never check the nuts and you are always betting, but only with strong. And if you have top pair with decent kicker always bet out, your table image will be fantastic so if you get raised just fold instantly, wait till u are leading the hand.

Also, the way you get action, is you bet big, early in the hand, with big draws. You make pot bets or over bets with nut flush draws, and good straight draws. Usually you will not be raised off this draw. Often when people call, they are slow playing against you. This way, when the check to you on the turn, for their fancy check raise, you check and seee a free river.. a river that can bust them.. or, conversely, if you hit your draw, you bet big, and the "trapper" springs their trap, and they lose all their chips.

I think that the strategy is characterized by a mostly tight and passive play preflop. The general idea is to get into pots with low and mid PPs, suited connectors, Ax suited, and A highcard and committing as little money as possible. Your raise the 4 premium hands because you have to in order to push out the weaker drawing hands and hopefully get HU against a hand thats dominated.

Post flop is where the aggressive style seems to really take hold. It is here where you make your hand and put people who make lesser hands to tough decisions for larger amounts of money then they are used to. Bad players have the toughest time post flop, so rather than try and put in large amounts of money preflop which is where new/bad players have some experience, the idea is to focus on their weakness: postflop. This is also good because when you overbet your TP or two pair, or even a set, the flush and straight draws that others might have are losing money to you in the long run by calling overbets.

The entire strategy is based on getting to the flop for as little money as possible with the best available hands to play, and then pounding away on the flop and subsequent streets.

It seems to me that this is not a strategy for new or inexperienced players, as you must have confidence in your reads, an ability to willingly show aggression by putting money in the pot, all the while being able to tell when you are beat.

This does not mean that you MUST show aggression all the time. You don't have to bet your draws in late position if you think you are going to get called or raised. Wait til the draw hits, then bet it straight up. It is the simple concept that weak players are weak when strong and strong when weak, so they think everybody else must do the same.

The real key is playing this strategy on turbo 6 man tables. This is the optimal place, because you put players to tough decisions, and the time restrictions make it even tougher. Simply put, the environment of a turbo is the worst kind for a bad player that makes bad decisions.

I've seen the strategy put into effect numerous times, and can say that it is a very successful and profitable way to play and make money. As stated before, you aren't dancing around with value bets or laying traps that might not get sprung, you are always trying to take the lead when you have the best hand and forcing bad players to hard decisions for all their money.

Pretty much, yep.. I love cheap flops, and I cannot lie.

One thing I will do is re raise weak players, players who raise to many hands, who raise Ace x, and big cards, and what not, and try and issolate them for a flop bet. Conversely, against a true maniac, I'll re raise ( when I know it will be him and me) for the marbles with hands I otherwise wouldn't. But mostly, yes, I like seeing cheap flops. I often even prefer to see cheap flops with jj and qq, as hitting a set is too profitable oportunity, and I don't like missing it.

Hey BigD my Personal Message system isnt working right send me an email at pokerplayer526@yahoo.com to talk about the turbo tables.

Thanks for this and Dynon's explanation. I see where this works well, now. I admittedly read the first post quickly and was somewhat distracted (at work) and it wasn't until further clarification that I see the validity of this strategy.

At higher stakes you can raise PF with AQo, get heads up or maybe two others and then take the pot with a continuation bet whether or not you even remotely hit the flop.

In small stakes (especially online), raising with marginal hands is only valuable for the free card (and even then, you might not get it). You raise with KJs in LP and you'll still see 50% of the table seeing a flop and calling you on the flop with bottom pair or a 6 high flush draw.

For this reason, I too might be considered fairly passive PF - raising with premium hands for more money and to push out the 85s folk.

exactly anselm, its true people call down with anything. They are all perpetual doubters, everyone. People can watch you play at a table for 4 hours, make no mistakes, bet the nuts every hand and they will still call you all in. Some nights my table image is magnificant and I attempt a huge bluff and even some legit people call me down, that really pisses me off. I try to avoid straight up bluffing as much as possible, I always semi-bluff or take small stabs frequently that are easy to get away from, every now and then I try something insane, but I don't get to excited to after some of the poor calldowns I have experienced. The only nights I lose with this strat are when people keep hitting their draws against me, that is probably one of the only disadvantages to overbetting, when people hit, it freaking hurts.

Absolutely right. The nights you lose sting, so you HAVE to be metnallyl tough. Sometimes this means standing up from the table, you have to do it. because the draw outs are extra "bad" when they happen. They called huge bets, into huge pots, getitng charged the absolute MAX they could be.. if you're susspectable to going on tilt from beats, this strat could be very dangerous. YOu HAVE To maintain control the whole time.

And to think, early on the haters where doing their normal 'bash any thread where someone claims to make money' stuff....

I agree, this thread has at least generated some discussion.

Mark

The merits of this strategy are simple. You are overbetting strong hands frequently in situations where most players are going to get very angry. It is very read oriented thought and you need to be extremely good to use it. Say that you flop top 2 pair UTG, most players would check and pull some fancy reraise on the turn. If they are more then 4 outs that could plausible destroy your hand I would recommend betting. People always find themselves in terrible situations because they checked the flop. It is much better to always always lead the hand. By being aggressive other players get very aggravated with you and when you are raised it strongly indicates you are beat. Eventually someone makes a stand. Also say the flop is 8 9 J rainbow and you are holding 10 Q UTG, bet hard!. People are really stupid, the 10 is sure to call you, people never fold top pair, you have to put weak players to TOUGH DECISIONS. They always make the wrong decision, you have to attack weak players.
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I'm a little unclear on this strategy. If you are only overbetting when you have big hands, why would that make most players very angry? Are you getting strong hands post-flop frequently? I think I understand the basic strategy that bad players will call off all their money with a weak or even no hand, but I don't see how making them angry plays into it.

[quote=Hobbes]The merits of this strategy are simple. You are overbetting strong hands frequently in situations where most players are going to get very angry. It is very read oriented thought and you need to be extremely good to use it. Say that you flop top 2 pair UTG, most players would check and pull some fancy reraise on the turn. If they are more then 4 outs that could plausible destroy your hand I would recommend betting. People always find themselves in terrible situations because they checked the flop. It is much better to always always lead the hand. By being aggressive other players get very aggravated with you and when you are raised it strongly indicates you are beat. Eventually someone makes a stand. Also say the flop is 8 9 J rainbow and you are holding 10 Q UTG, bet hard!. People are really stupid, the 10 is sure to call you, people never fold top pair, you have to put weak players to TOUGH DECISIONS. They always make the wrong decision, you have to attack weak players.
[/quote]

I'm a little unclear on this strategy. If you are only overbetting when you have big hands, why would that make most players very angry? Are you getting strong hands post-flop frequently? I think I understand the basic strategy that bad players will call off all their money with a weak or even no hand, but I don't see how making them angry plays into it.[/quote]

Well when you use this strategy you are seen as very mysterious at the table, you are constantly betting large and hard and folding to value bets once people hit. You have to fold when value bets hit, you can't pay people off, this is a must. Your reads have to be super good. I call and lose about 4-5 times a night usually less on the river. So when you sit there and bet bet bet bet and never give back people get angry. Its like when you are get KJ suited and someone raises 5x preflop, im like damn i wanted to play this hand, it makes me angry. The same thing can be said for fish, when they call with QK and the flop is 10 J 3 and you are betting 16-22 into a 5 dollar pot , they get angry, drawing makes the game exciting for them, so they call. On the turn since you know they are on draw, you bet ridiculous, this ruins the game for most players, they love getting into hands where they can draw cheaply and get out this. This strat will make the game hell for people you are playing against. They want to play for enoyment or to relax. Its a constant onslaught of betting , and the bets aren't jokes either you are doing this with the nuts, 2 pair, straight flush draw. People against weak people you have to make it really bad for them. It just ruins the quality of the game for some people, they want to play friendly poker and everytime they get a draw, u are betting their soul. Thats why people call a lot of the time, they hate you so much. Try to strat sometime if you get a chance, you will see people getting mad immediately. It throws people off their game, they have to make GIANT decisions if they want to outplay you and stuff, and when people see you betting the nuts UTG twice pot they get really concerned and the fish will develop a vendetta against you when you are fighting off the draws.