Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with [9h], [Jh].
1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) [Th], [3s], [8c] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) [8h] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero...

Who raises, who calls?

Assume he's an unknown (he was).

For typical 1/2 fare, i just call. Suppose this was 3/6 or 5/10. Does that change?

Call. You are probably not getting rid of an unknown flop 3-bettor with a raise. You are not the favourite on the turn, drawing to 15-18 outs. You have no showdown value if you miss, so earning a free river SD is moot. I don't think that dynamic changes at any limit, but I'm only playing 2/4, so what do I know?

I think it was a mistake to raise the flop. If he 3 bets than UTG will fold and you aren't getting the odds on your straight draw. The only reason I say this is that the 9-J straight draw isn't a hand they'll be able to put you on very easily.

That said, by the way this hand has been played the villain likely has 2 pair, which possible turned into a boat. I think you just call here.

I'm thinking the flop raise was for a free card right? I hope so at least, well you didn't get it, so this is pretty much an easy call on the turn, you'll be able to get your river raise anyways as it seems your opponent is strong. You also won't like getting 3-bet on the turn as you'll have an interesting river decision even if you hit since your opponent may have filled up.

You also probably have zero fold equity at this point and a raise just puts in more money as an underdog. A free showdown does nothing for you as your hand doesn't have showdown value, so all raising does is charge yourself more for a draw while you are behind.

I think it's pretty obvious that hte raise was for a free card.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that he has something big and that he'll 3bet. I think it's a pretty easy raise with a caller in between.

The turn is what im wondering about. He doesnt have to fold a winner often to make it profitable. Probably not even 1/5 times.

Is there anyone who _does_ play higher stakes who could say if raising this turn is effective against

No, a raise is not profitable at low limits or high limits, any hand that I deem worthy of 3-betting the flop is almost certainly going to be shown down. Like I said, I don't believe you have fold equity here at all and getting 3-bet on the turn is the worst thing possible as you could very well be drawing dead already and put yourself in a tough spot if you hit the river.

Unless your opponent is extremely weak tight who folds overpairs to any paired board, then raising the turn won't be profitable.

Is BB unknown? If so, how can you put him on air when he's 3-betting the flop and leading the turn? That is generally taken as a sign of strength.

fold pre-flop.

but call the turn in this situation.

Uhh, that's not a fold preflop by ANY measure. It's one of the easiest limps you can make, if not a raise.

If J9s in MP is out of your range at a typical low stakes table with a limper behind you, you're playing way too tight.

And i also think that not raising the flop is bad. This is about as perfect a situation as you can hope for to raise with a strong draw, against multiple opponents. If you're not raising the flop here, what ARE you raising for free cards? This is ideal, and i dont think it's close at all.



I dont think an overpair is what's in question here. There was no raise preflop, and he is the BB. There's a large range of hands that he may have, if he's aggressive, and he certainly doesnt need better than top pair to make that 3bet.

It's obviously read dependant, but without a read, you need to revert to what the average (typical) person at the limits you're playing will do. At 5/10, you're facing far more aggressive (and tighter) villains.

If you have top pair, do you call down here?

Don't fold pf. Your call is good.

The flop raise is good. Same with calling the 3-bet. I would raise if I thought there was more than a 50% chance I'd get the free turn card.

The turn I'd call. Most players who 3-bet this flop are intent on seeing sd. You really don't have much fold equity vs an unknown at any limit.

I didnt raise, precisely because he's both an unknown and the limits are low enough that i dont expect a fold.

At higher limits, do people generally call down here with TP in full ring games? It seems like it could be a fold to many, unless you have a maniacal image.

Of course, if he's an unknown to you, you're generally an unknown to him, which means he's going to call you down when in doubt, but uhh... yeah.


So the question is, if you have a hand like Q/10, do you call down here against an unknown at 5/10?

with so many outs, I call.

Preflop: fine

Flop: If your J is an out you have pot equity here against 2 players. Along with fold equity and free card chances raising this flop is a must. Just calling the 3 bet was correct.

A quick examination of the flop at this point shows there are no draws out there except yours and 79. Given the 3-bet it is very likely that the BB has a made hand, possibly even something daft like 2 pair.

Turn: After leading BB is usually going to the showdown. I'd be surpised if you'd get a 10% fold rate on a raise here. You can't raise for a free showdown as you have no showdown value. Calling gets a 'nh'.

I can't see this hand changing at any level of play.

cool.
I was wondering if I call down too much when I'm raised on the turn by unkowns. :-)

The thing is though, whilst he may fold QT, that particular hand is a small portion of his possible range.

Given that he is the BB there are a lot of possible holdings that are going to 3-bet the turn - which you have to call, and which would really suck.

You need to consider your best course of action against a villains entire range of reasonable holdings.

If he does hold QT here and he does fold, it still doesn't make raising the turn correct.

uhhh, i guess im too tight then. what are you hoping to flop btw?

I dont think top pair is a small portion of his hand range, if he's an aggressive player... i think it's the most likely hand (though that isnt to say i think it makes up more htan 50% of the possible hands he may have). I think it comprises a particularly large percentage of his potential hands. Two pairs are comparatively less common. One of the three two pair combo's (and the most likely, given possible hand combinations remaining in deck) on the flop just got counterfeited and will probably fold here.



What are you hoping for with _any_ hand. J9s performs well in multiway pots, and that's exactly what we can expect from this point.

Do you fold 10Js? The different is extremely marginal between the two.

Abracadabra:

what does it mean when_you_use_the_underscore ?

thanks.

Emphasis... just pretend that it's italicized. Im too lazy to format it properly.

yeah i guess it is fairly marginal. i understand the mult-way action your hoping to get with the hand.

personally i don't like it from that early, but thats just my opinion.



can you explain this further?

not trying to be an idiot, im just trying to understand if im missing something.

I dont like raising, but i'd rather raise than fold.

It's another way of saying that i dont think the limp is marginal.