FullTiltPoker Game #291134480: Table Papyrus (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:59:49 ET - 2005/11/14
Seat 1: hockeyplayer18 ($11.85)
Seat 2: mbard4444 ($114.40)
Seat 3: HERO ($44.25)
Seat 4: unsuited kings ($39.50)
Seat 5: gram963 ($106.10)
Seat 6: RobBass ($46.60)
hockeyplayer18 posts the small blind of $0.25
mbard4444 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #6

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AllYourChips [Ah Ad]
HERO calls $0.50
RobBass calls $0.50
mbard4444 checks

*** FLOP *** [9h 9s Ks]
mbard4444 checks
HERO bets $1.75
RobBass folds
mbard4444 raises to $7
HERO calls $5.25

*** TURN *** [9h 9s Ks] [Jd]
mbard4444 bets $15.75
HERO calls $15.75

*** RIVER *** [9h 9s Ks Jd] [Js]
mbard4444 bets $47.25
HERO folds
mbard4444 wins the pot ($44.90)



He showed his hand after. I know I misplayed it badly I just want to know where y’all think I went wrong.

Raise aces.

You have the nuts preflop!

You limped preflop which is basically always a mistake with aces.

I'm making the flop 15 and seeing what he does. Saves us money over calling a turn bet and folding the river.

I should have mentioned that it was a very loose table

What the hell are you doing?


-fop

I'll show you why you don't limp aces.

This hand I thought I'd be cute, because I was UTG
and there had been a lot of raising happening, so
I figured I'd trap someone into a big pot when they
raised it up preflop...Little did I know...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($195)
Hero ($200)
MP1 ($184.65)


Preflop: Hero is UTG with A:club:, A:diamond:. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero calls $2, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($7) 8:spade:, 3:diamond:, 7:diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($43) K:club: (2 players)
BB bets $40, Hero calls $180 (All-In), BB calls $135 (All-In).

River: ($398) K:heart: (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $398

You can imagine how I nearly shit myself when BB'
turned over 7 8 offsuit for 2 pairs...Thank god for the running
cowboys to save my ass...Needless to say, raise Aces,
every time, from every position.

And this is a reason to ... limp preflop?

Exactly, if its a loose table, shouldnt you be more inclined to raise them pre-flop?? I can almost and i use the word almost loosley, undestand if you were to limp pre-flop, if it was an aggressive table, in the hope you could check-raise pre-flop, but this is just crazy play...and your asking to be outdrawn by limping with aces in a cash game.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm calling this river. It's likely he has a King not a nine. Why would you raise so strongly with a nine on that flop? Me thinks he didn't want any action.The running jacks are also unlikely to have helped him. QT beats you but its also unlikely that he raises the flop so strongly with that holding.

I would have called this, and I think you'd be surprised how often Aces are good in that spot.

It'd be a brutal call.

Look at it from his perspective.

EVERY draw has hit. The straight draw hit. The flush draw hit. The board is paired twice. Who would move in here with a king?

On the other hand, what draws could he have been semi bluffing that DIDNT make it there?

You're banking on these bets being stone cold bluffs the whole way, and retarded, maniacal ones at that.

Tell me, what hands raise that flop? Probably not a Straight draw or flush draw. You can be almost certain he doesn't have a straight or a flush. No way just a flush draw bets that turn and I'll gamble that he didn't raise the flop with QT.

If you have that, then why is villain betting the river on a double paired board? Truth is, that he'd be more than happy to check it down if he had nines full, a straight or a flush. KJ is the only hand I could see villain playing like this that beats us.

All logic points to him having just a King here. I'm calling, and its definitely not retarded or as maniac as you might think.

So you think that he's betting something along the lines of TPTK to get... a better hand to fold? Is that right?

Because surely he can't expect worse hands to call.

From his perspective, it looks like the hero was on a draw. ALl draws hit. Betting top pair for value on that board is insanely stupid for him.



A king is the least likely hand for him to have, unless he has two of them in the hole.

No worse hands call, very few better hands fold, if he has a strong king. He doesnt KNOW you have aces.

To us, it does look stupid. On each of Villain's bets, I have a hard time convincing myself that he wants to get called. I really think you can call here with AA and expect to win at least 60% of the time.

If Hero thinks he is beat, he should have folded on the turn. Once he called the turn, he should have been prepared to go all the way on the river unless a King hit the river.

There's a time and place for limping aces. Cash game NL 6-max tables aren't that time and place.

yea, at a .25/.50 six max table just dont do it

You're following the, "why would he bet so much if he want to get called" principle?

That's a shitty way of looking at it without a read to suggest that he's a huge maniac. This would have to be a stone cold bluff, if he indeed 'didnt want to get called'.

What he said. Also, limp with aces in a fulltable, preferably a live game where the play is much looser pre flop, and the players are too stupid to realize that the limp raise means aces or kings.

I think everyone will agree that Hero really butchered this hand on every street.

Pre Flop solution: Raise, at least you'll find out if he has something decent, and build up the pot with aces.

Every solution from here on out will take into consideration what actually happenned.

Flop Solution: I like the bet, but when he raises then I think you have to throw in a re-raise here. Take control of the hand NOW.

Turn Solution: You called his raise cold.He bets into you and I think you are faced with two choices here: Raise or Fold. If you think he has a nine, then you muck, if not then you raise.

Calling IMO is the worst option, however if you call, lets think about what happens on the river should several of these cards come:
Ace- Obviously the dream card, but very unlikely.

Nine- Not a bad card at all, in fact its the best card that can come after the Ace. If he has quads then you shouldn't feel bad about losing with Nines full of Aces.

King- Without a doubt, the worst card in the deck. Now he has a full house for sure that beats your two pair.

Jack- Not a bad card like you seemed to think it was. It's very unlikely that he has one. If you were beat on the turn, then this card does nothing to change that. If you were ahead this card does nothing to change that either unless he had KJ(very remote).

By calling the turn, you are pretty much committing yourself to this pot and subliminally telling yourself that HE DOESN'T have a nine or Kings full. Therefore if you call the turn, then you have to go all the way unless a king falls.

River Solution: Whats the point of folding after investing so much when the card that fell on the River is very unlikely to have altered whether you were ahead or behind?

It is absolutely incorrect to say that you should ALWAYS limp with Aces.

ABSOLUTELY...almost never limp in with aces. Very often i see players try to get cute and fancy with pocket rockets. A few times ive seen players make this mistake and let trash hands in for cheap, maybe someone with J2 in the BB. Then what happens when the flop comes out 2 2 6? You're done, unless another Ace pops out..Granted that doesnt happen very often but you know what i mean. You have to chase away the trash hands with a preflop raise.

I remember a situation in a tournament where i was BB with 75 offsuit, and the person UTG just called (he had AA), then a few others called and i checked...the Flop came out something like 8 6 4 giving me the nut straight. I remember busting the guy. He was complaining for like 5 minutes about the bad beat and blah blah blah. Because of his preflop play he deserved to lose the hand.

Tournament home game - 2nd hand of the night.

I'm in the BB, and check when everyone limps to me - I have J 3.

Flop comes J 3 3. I check, MP2 raises, a few callers, I re-raise, he re-raises, I decide to go all in.

He gets a pained expression on his face and says "I have to call you." He flips over AA. I win the hand, and he's busted out on second hand of the game.

I would never call a raise holding J 3.

Always, always, always raise Aces.

Because your friend is a horrible player?

There is a time and a place.

yah for sure


:!:

If your goal is to make money (instead of never losing a pot with AA which is the sense that I get from some of the comments in this thread) then limping with Aces is a great tool to use at times.

You just have to know that you'll have a greater chance of losing if you do and be willing to drop them if the situation seems like you're beat. But it doesn't mean its not a +EV play at times.

Mark

I limp with AA if the following are true.

1. I'm UTG or UTG+1.
2. I am confident that there will be a raise.

The only reason I do it is to reraise hard. If nobody raises I'm not happy about it.