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HurricaneKyle

Sunday, November 13th, 2005, 9:11 PM

I'm dealt J

in the big blind. I check to see the flop which comes
A

.

Pretty good flop for me. Top two pair, with a weak flush draw and a backdoor flush draw.
I bet the pot and got one caller.
Turn is the J

This is where I am truly lacking as a PLO player. I don't have a good feel for what to do on this card. It could have possibly given him a straight, but I still have the top two pair and I feel like I had to bet it further.

I bet the pot once again and got called.

River J

There really couldn't be a better card in the deck other than an ace. If he had a lower set, he now is going to pay me off big. I bet the pot , and then he raised all in and I called.

He shows A

for aces full, which as you can imagine felt like a kick in the stomach.

Anyway, I don't play PLO much but try not to get too involved unless there is good reason to think I'm ahead.

Is there any way I could have minimized my loss on the hand? If I had to guess, I probably messed up most on the turn. Anyway I eagerly await your analysis.

dingas

Monday, November 14th, 2005, 12:35 AM

1. Probably you should check-fold the flop, although you didn't mention how many people were in the hand. If it was heads-up, a bet is maybe okay.
2. Given that you bet the flop and he called, the turn bet is okay, since he might put you on a straight and fold.
3. You should check-call the river. If he has a low full house, he'll bet when checked to, but he probably won't raise. Therefore, check-calling earns the same when your hand is good and loses less when you're beat.

kaisersoze12

Monday, November 14th, 2005, 8:09 PM

QUOTE (HurricaneKyle)

I'm dealt J :heart: 2 :spade: A :heart: 9 :spade: in the big blind. I check to see the flop which comes
A :spade: 8 :spade: 9 :heart: .

Pretty good flop for me. Top two pair, with a weak flush draw and a backdoor flush draw.
I bet the pot and got one caller.
Turn is the J :club:

This is where I am truly lacking as a PLO player. I don't have a good feel for what to do on this card. It could have possibly given him a straight, but I still have the top two pair and I feel like I had to bet it further.

I bet the pot once again and got called.

River J :diamond:

There really couldn't be a better card in the deck other than an ace. If he had a lower set, he now is going to pay me off big. I bet the pot , and then he raised all in and I called.

He shows A :diamond: J :club: A :club: Q :diamond: for aces full, which as you can imagine felt like a kick in the stomach.

Anyway, I don't play PLO much but try not to get too involved unless there is good reason to think I'm ahead.

Is there any way I could have minimized my loss on the hand? If I had to guess, I probably messed up most on the turn. Anyway I eagerly await your analysis.

Sounds like how Mikey lost everything to TeddyKGB. Did you tell him he didn't have the spades?

kaisersoze12

Monday, November 14th, 2005, 8:11 PM

QUOTE (dingas)

I'd bet the pot on the flop. If called, slow down. Fold to a turn bet, otherwise if you see it free, check call the river.

Steppin Razor

Tuesday, November 15th, 2005, 8:59 PM

When someone raises the river in PLO, you can be pretty certain they have the nuts.
Top two is not a great hand, so I would've gotten cautious when I got called on the flop. At this point, I bet the turn but don't like it. I'm not going to pot it here.

Jonny5

Wednesday, November 16th, 2005, 11:25 PM

Bet out on the flop. You have to check the turn as that completed a likely straight hand (something like TJQ with spades). You played the river fine, I would probably make a crying call as well, but your hand will be good enough most of the time to call.

dingas

Thursday, November 17th, 2005, 12:45 AM

The more I think about it the more I don't like this situation and I think you won't be giving up much if you just check-fold this flop every time.
The amount that you'll win when your hand is good is tiny, the amount that you'll lose when you're beat is potentially huge. Even if your hand is best on the flop, you'll get drawn out on a lot of the time and you might even get re-raised by a str8 flush draw on the flop and have to fold right away. Or if you bet the flop and check the turn you're setting yourself up to get semi-bluffed out of the hand.

And again, I don't see the point of betting out on the river. What can your opponent have? If he has a low full house he'll bet when you check to him and he'll just call when you bet. If he has less than that, he'll just fold to your bet. So by betting you achieve the same when you're good but lose it all when you're not.

Jonny5

Thursday, November 17th, 2005, 12:45 PM

Check/folding top two is ridiculously weak/tight :?

DrZebra

Thursday, November 17th, 2005, 1:13 PM

I bet it's not weak tight against his opponent. Make sure you watch the players and get a read on what they might have. Notice you have no insight as to whether or not this guy plays a lot of hands or none at all. If he was an incredibly tight player the c/f on the turn would be easy. If he's a fish, raise raise raise. PLO is about position and people.

Zach6668

Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 12:04 AM

QUOTE (Jonny5)

Check/folding top two is ridiculously weak/tight :?

Top two is a pretty weak hand. In most cases he's drawing to FOUR outs, or even drawing dead to a better boat.

If it's heads up, then it's an ok hand, but otherwise, with many people to a flop, there's always a set out there, and most crappy PLO players will not fold bottom set.

Davin

Saturday, November 19th, 2005, 3:52 AM

this is why position is so much more important in plo than in nlh. w/ your holding on that flop, betting the pot was a good idea. but when it came the turn, the straight just hit, and now you're only looking at 3 pair w/ a bad flush draw. you're beat by q10, 10-7, any set, and your flush draw my be dead. slow down now and fold to a pot bet since your position is horrible.

i cant think of many hands that would call that pot sized bet on the flop that doesnt have you beat right now (as the jack should be a very scary card for you). the king high flush draw is the only thing you're ahead of, but even if that was the case, your opponent may have also had a set or a wrap to go along w/ the flush, and now that the straight has arrived, you're not looking too hot.

if you had position on your opponent and it's checked to you on the flop, then sure, fire away. and if it gets to you on that turn, fire again. but since you're oop, you could very well get raised on the flop or turn by a hand that has you crushed. c/f that turn, it's not as sexy as it looks

dingas

Monday, November 21st, 2005, 6:22 AM

That's the reason i don't like this hand. You're out of position and there aren't too many cards that you'll be happy to see on the turn. You don't have the nuts and you don't have any draws to the nuts.
If you're on the button and people check to you, that's one thing, but with everyone left to act in front of you, this hand is quite weak on this flop. I think the long and the short of it is that you cannot win a big pot with this hand but you may lose a big one. That combined with your bad position and the chance of being bluffed off your hand on later streets means this hand is not worth it to me.
It's not that I'm a super tight player, I mean, the last time I played Omaha I won a big pot calling someone with a 10 high flush on the river -- I'm just saying I don't think this situation is a very good one to be in..

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