This is a $300 buy in live tournament. It is nearing the end ofthe first level, the levels are 45 minutes long and you start with 5 grand in chips. The mojority of these players are not overly good. I had been raising a little bit preflop trying to pick up some chips early. I hadnt made all the necessary adjustments from the satellites I played in to win my seat, if I had made the adjustments I probably could have gotten away from this hand.

Each time I raised with marginal hands I would get atleast 3 callers and I wouldnt hit the flop at all, and would have to check and fold because these guys are very hard to bluff. I bluff away good portion of my chips when this hand came up. I am under the gun +1 with pocket queens, the action gets to me and I raise it to 175 (the blinds are 25 and 50, i raise it more than usual becuase the table was so loose.) I get two callers, one a guy about 2 off the button who had won some chips early, and also the small blind. The flop comes
J 5 and 7

No aces or kings I figure that This is going to be a money hand, it would get checked to me and I would make a bet and pick up the pot. The guy in the small blind comes out firing $500 in a pot that has $575. There are 2 spades on the board and you are on the shortest stack at the table with one guy to act behind you. What would you do? I will tell you what happens after a few replies. thanks

#1 a raise to 175 isn't nearly enough if this is a loose table. that's only 3.5x the bb. a raise to 250-300 is necessary.

#2 you really cant afford to fold this hand. as you have said, you've raised a few pots pf, and then you check/fold on the flop. you probably have a weak-tight table image right now, and this bet by the sb could easily be a stab at a fairly uncoordinated board. if you fold (or even just call) right now, you'll get run over sooner or later.

#3 therefore, you must raise a good amount. to 1500 would be about right. it'll drive out the player yet to act (unless he's flopped a monster) and puts the heat on the sb since he is sb facing a large flop r/r. if he does decide to call or goes all-in, you can maybe pick up a few more tells based on his actions since this is a live tourney

His flop lead screams set to me, at the very worst A7 of spades which puts you on a coin flip.

This is a deep stacked tournament, and your early strategy is backwards against weak players. You want to be tight/aggressive and not bluff, because you cant bluff weak players.

Fold here, tighten up, and let your card play be the determining factor.

i disagree

our hero has been weak-tight all 45 mins of this tourney

a good player will take notice and stab at a safe flop (such as this one)

op cant afford to lay another hand down. if he does, everyone at the table will take notice and they will call his pf raises bc of his poor post-flop play

raise to 1500, fold to a push

Why are you assuming a good player when in general they are weak? The big bet with a set is consistent with a weak player who will overbet a set instead of trying to maximize its value.

If he has established that weak a table image, lay it down, tighten up and play against his image, instead of blowing a ton of chips on a hand that you are probably behind on.

of course we know it's a set bc op already said "I probably could have gotten away from this hand", meaning he was behind. also, if he was ahead, there'd be no reason to post this hand.

we know sb had hero beat
we know hero ended up going all in
we know hero busted out

it's easy to respond to a hand in a situation like this (and it makes you look like a genius when results are posted), but is the advice really valid?


you ask the hero to tighten up, which is great advice; but folding to a bet w/ an overpair after a ragged flop is wayyyy too weak-tight

also, one of the most dangerous things in poker is to underestimate your opponent, and that's exactly what you're doing right here by just assuming the sb is a bad player fastplaying a set


let's just agree to disagree on this one

o btw... i still feel the largest problem w/ this play was the pf raise. it needs to be much higher since op is oop and this is a loose table.

Actually I passed right over the "could have gotten away from the hand" on my way to the action, so I dont think Im being results oriented.

It also seems that you are the one underestimating your opponent by pushing 1/3 of your stack at him in the face of his showing strength, thats a lot more risky than giving him credit for a hand and playing on with an intact stack.

You and I rarely agree, so we are always agreeing to disagree, or we would be posting endless responses.

I guess I could have made it a little more mysterious as to what happenend. It got to me and figured there wasnt going be any better shot, so I pushed the rest of my chips in, thinking i could push the sb off a hand like 10's or so. If I didn't call I knew my image would be really bad since I was checking and folding so much after betting preflop.

The guy left to act after me called and then the sb went all in and the guy called him too. The SB had pocket fives and had hit a set, I had my queens, and the other guy had queen 10 of spades. Narrowing down my outs. The flush missed and the fives held.

Ultimatly it was my fault I shouldnt have put myself in such a position. This is a great tournament with lots of chips. I was anxious and had been playing alot of satellites and online tournaments so yes I was playing way too fast for so loose a table. The raise was a little low and honestly I was going to bump it up but dialog before that hand talked about how everyone was over raising, so I figured I would lower it a little bit and go from there.

I think the guy who called the all ins who risked probably close to 75% of his stack made a horrible call. He only had one over, and it was a little too early to gamble that much. I made the mistake of giving him too much intelligence. In the end it was my fault I am not saying they are donkeys or anything, was a rookie mistake. Any suggestions or comments?

Dont give so much weight to your own table image. 1/2 the players dont notice, 1/4 of the players notice it and assume you may have switched gears, and 1/4 of the players notice it but play there own cards anyway.

Look for reasons to fold, not reasons to call/push. If you cant find any credible reasons to fold, then figure out the right call/bet amount.