$5 multi on AP

Blinds are 10-20 and we start with 1500 in chips

First hand I get dealt QQ in late position

Folded to me, I raise 60 making it 80 to go

folded to BB who makes it 280

Now I know going broke with QQ this early in the tournament is very fish like but I also see this as a great spot to double up early.

I pushed and was called by AK who hit and won

My thinking now is that I should have just called and folded when the K hit on the flop, but it is very easy to second guess yourself.

I think it is +EV to push right there because of the range of hands I could possibly get called with (JJ-77, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ and maybe even a complete donkish hand like 98 suited or J4 off)

In a bigger buy in tournament I probably would have played it more cautiously but since it was just a 5 I thought pushing was the right play because more times than not I would be a huge favorite.

Maybe I am not giving $5 multi players enough credit

Thanks, Jack

I would have just called the raise - you have position on your opponent. Once that K hits on the flop, I'm letting go of the queens to aggression.

If no A or K hits the flop, then you have a much better chance of being ahead and I play on.

Yes I know calling and seeing a flop is the best way not to go broke here. I guess what I am wondering is if moving in right there is +EV because of the range of hands I would get called with in that spot. Since it was the first hand of a $5 tournament, my opponent doesen't neccesarily have to have AK, AA, KK...

Yes you are correct, I would agree it is +EV. That being said, I move all in with QQ in rebuy tournies and cash games. The goal of MTT's is to stay alive and you don't do that by pushing small edges all tourney, you're gonna go bust eventually. You can make that play in your cash games and rebuy tournies if you like, but calling the reraise to evaluate flop is the play, IMO.

72o

Personally, I like this move. Tournaments involve a lot of luck, and your best chance of going far in them is by building up a big stack early. So you put your money in with the best hand and took your chances on the coinflip. Keep making plays like that at the beginning and you may very well set yourself up to go deep in tournaments.

Later on in the tourney when play is more advanced, you may want to just call here before the flop, since you are much closer to your goal and you are trying to stay alive and build chips. Early on though, I'm going all in with QQ preflop if i get raised big by only 1 person. There's so many fish online (especially in $5 tournaments) that your play is definitely +EV. Also, it puts some fishies on tilt if you raise all in on their raise and they have to fold. Always good to know.

[quote="exdubliner"][quote=JJACKSON123]


Personally, I like this move. Tournaments involve a lot of luck, and your best chance of going far in them is by building up a big stack early. So you put your money in with the best hand and took your chances on the coinflip. Keep making plays like that at the beginning and you may very well set yourself up to go deep in tournaments.[/quote]

They do involve a lot of luck, this is correct, but in the long run, you still need to put yourself in the best possible position to survive, which translates to less gambling. To compare, this play would be something you would see out of a Steve Dannerman. While he went farther than any other pro in the WSOP, he will not win as consistenly as a DN, Juanda, what-have-you. To get consistent long term winning results, you avoid going broke as much as possible. If you think you are an inferior player to the field, then you are willing to gamble like this (and you're bound to hit a tourney big at some point). But if you've registered to get into the tournament, I'm guessing you think you're as good if not better than half the field. :wink: Otherwise why play right? Agree? Dissagree?

72o

If your opponent is good, then he should fold any hand that isn't AA, KK, or AK to your push. However, in a $5 tourney on the first hand, you might get called by a wider range of hands so your tournament ev is likely positive.

I agree with the other poster who said that if you feel that you have an edge on most of the other players, then why risk all your chips on the first hand pre-flop with queens even if you have +EV.

[quote="SevenTwoOff"][quote=exdubliner][quote=JJACKSON123]


Personally, I like this move. Tournaments involve a lot of luck, and your best chance of going far in them is by building up a big stack early. So you put your money in with the best hand and took your chances on the coinflip. Keep making plays like that at the beginning and you may very well set yourself up to go deep in tournaments.[/quote]

They do involve a lot of luck, this is correct, but in the long run, you still need to put yourself in the best possible position to survive, which translates to less gambling. To compare, this play would be something you would see out of a Steve Dannerman. While he went farther than any other pro in the WSOP, he will not win as consistenly as a DN, Juanda, what-have-you. To get consistent long term winning results, you avoid going broke as much as possible. If you think you are an inferior player to the field, then you are willing to gamble like this (and you're bound to hit a tourney big at some point). But if you've registered to get into the tournament, I'm guessing you think you're as good if not better than half the field. :wink: Otherwise why play right? Agree? Dissagree?

72o[/quote]


well said. point taken.

Folding to a lone K on the flop isnt that easy either, though a fold to an A is almost automatic.

There is another option on this hand which to reraise pre-flop to 600 or even 750. Now a call or a push has narrowed the re-raisers hand significantly , and calling his push or aggression from a K on the flop is much more likely -EV, meanwhile youve preserved a playable stack.

You are probably going broke to AA or KK pockets (unless you are "lucky" and his set flops), because you are going to play flopped undercards strongly, but you avoid going broke to AK.

To the OP: dont make decisions based on the size of the buyin (unless its an assessment of the skill level of other players). A "what the hell its only $5" attitude can be detrimental to your game overall, because you arent practicing the skills you need to play at higher levels.

I think the one thing everyone is forgetting is that this is just a 5$ tournament, and you have not yet invested any time in it.

Pushing QQ may not be the best play, but it is almost certainly +EV. If you win it puts you off to a great start, if you lose just find another tournament and play again. So unless the 5$ was a significant portion of your bankroll this play is just fine.

At some point in a tournament with a quick structure you need to gamble heavily to make your stack big enough to play skillfully to be able to win it. If all you do is survive and have many all-in double up situations, it's only a matter of time before you lose one. This method usually gets people into the money every other tournament, but they make like 10% of their buy-in in profits and that's it.

I'd rather gamble earlier on for a really big stack and win the tournament I get a bit lucky in early, than just staying alive and placing barely in the money every other tournament. The way the prize structures work, depending on entrants of course... you can not make the money like 50 times in a row, then win 1st place and still be way more profitable than the people "surviving until the money"

With all that said, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the push all in with QQ here. Just giving a point of view based on tournament play in general. I generally don't take any of my shots this early at a big stack preflop. I'd rather see cheap flops and hope to hit something huge by limping in with very maginal hands and busting overplayed top pair ace kickers.

I think the play was correct... I understand what people are saying about "not gambling," and not going broke, but since it is early in a $5 tourney (lots of fish) the odds are high that he might call with something worse than QQ. There is a very good chance that you get your money in as a 2-1 favorite or better...

I don't really like the whole play to "survive" idea. If you get your money in as a favorite, and dont get unlucky two or three straight times, then you should have enough chips to "survive" later confrontations, even if you get unlucky and lose one. If you knew he had AK then I'd call and play accordingly, but you don't... The bottom line is moving in with QQ here is definitely +ev, enough so to make the gamble worth it... Play to win, not survive; that's the way I see it.