don't know if i'm being results oriented here, but bear with me. the game is 5/10 ring, the table is on the tight side (for pacific) with two loose/passive fish, both which were in the hand.

utg, the first fish, limps, and the second fish raises in mp. it folds to me, and i three-bet in the big blind with A K . both players call.

(9 sb) Q 7 6

i bet, both players call.

(6 bb) 2

i check, utg checks, mp bets, i fold, utg calls.

(8 bb) A

utg checks, mp checks.

utg shows 8 8 (flush) and takes it down as mp mucks.

on the flop, before i bet out, i really hated my situation. i can't get it heads-up with mp (who i easily have dominated, or against whom i can draw live to a full six outs if i'm behind)., because utg is in the middle of us.

so, you'd think i should checkraise, but i don't know how reliable that is given that i was the last aggressor preflop (mp might check behind with AJ, KJ, AT, 88, 99, 22, 33, 44, etc.).

so, i'm thinking, why did i three-bet preflop to take the lead away from mp? of course, it was for value. that said, my three-bet affects the way the hand plays out postflop, and usually, it inhibits my ability to checkraise and isolate mp. and most importantly, since the pot is big, i would like to do this regardless of whether i hit or miss the flop, right?

so, is it worth it to sacrifice a bit of value preflop in order to increase my value postflop? i'd say it is.

so, i'm wondering if i should just call from the blinds with strong hands when doing so will allow me to isolate the preflop raiser. this will be in situations where the preflop raiser is on my right and a three-bet preflop won't isolate him at all. i think this shouldn't be the case with my strongest hands like AA-KK, but maybe with QQ-TT/AK-AQ, this might be optimal.

thoughts?

aseem

Interesting hand.

I think you should always be raising AK from the blinds in this situation. Your equity is too large to pass up.

However, you don't always have to follow up with a bet at this pot. What are the fishes preflop raising standards? If they are tight, than the only hand you're ahead of right now is AJ. So if you bet, you're betting as a semi-bluff. This is a bad play, since the bluff part of it won't work.

If you check, and the second fish bets, you can be sure he has at least a pair. You are drawing to 3-6 outs (closer to 6 on average), and can then play your hand accordingly.

If you check, and the second fish checks, you can lead at the turn card, and hope to pick up the pot there, or get calls from weaker hands that don't have the odds to do so. You can check the river UI, without having to worry about getting bluffed.

BTW, you're calling the turn if the 2 that comes off isn't a club, right?

I've brought this up before and got flamed, but I still think it's a viable move just smooth calling wAKo in the Big Blind. It doesn't tip off opponents to your possible holdings and can allow for the check-raise as you mentioned, to help drive out players behind you.

I believe the majority think that in low-limit games you miss to much equity, but that it's probably the preferred play at higher limits. I've had success both ways, and been beaten both ways so I haven't decided the "best" way. Probably the feel of the game and the players could swing it for me.

I was looking for the hand history and can't find it, but on one occasion just calling with about 6 people in for a raise, the flop came AK3, I checked and it went raise, call, call, call, raise back to me and I smooth called again, (risky here but I was thinking the overcalls were worth the bargain at this point.) Turn was an Ace and life was good from there on out, capping it and river. This was the dream example of not raising with it in lower limits.

The problem with this line in this hand is that if you check the flop, and the pf raiser bets, he probably has you beat. He's passive. Passive players don't like continuation bets with nothing. So raising doesn't increase your equity enough to make it profitable.

if both players are loose passive you have little/no fold equity so why do you want to get the pot heads up?

You don't. :-)

I recently came to the conclusion that the key to being good at poker isn't who can memorize the most or best "rules" about how they play, because that changes as stakes, sites, and opponents change.

It's about observing your opponents for reads, knowing math, and THINKING most correctly at the time.

This can only be improved by learning and experience.

I think I agree that it'd be better to just call the raise preflop... from your reasoning.

I also think I'd have an easier time beating the Pacific 3/6 with pokertracker than the Party 1/2 without pokertracker.

So all I need now is more money!

Why?

When your opponent bets the flop, he is ahead of you. Why raise when you are drawing to 6 outs?

And what about the 30% of the time you flop an ace or king?

Hmmm.

What do you think happens if we call the raise preflop and lead into the raiser w/overs on the flop?

The same thing that happens when you raise preflop and lead into the raiser w/ overs on the flop.

I ask because I hate playing overs OOP against someone else that has shown strength... and tend to either spew and fold too soon.

So by 3-betting preflop, we'll take the fold equity from him, and make our lead more powerful, and that's better than a check/raise with overs.

I guess that makes sense.

It makes a ton more sense if we hit... and I was trying to think what's the best way to play overs OOP, not what's the best way to play AK preflop.

It depends on your opponents and the flop texture, which influence your fold equity and how likely your overs are to be the best hand.

against loose passive players i think its best to play straightforward and aggressive.

against tag players i can see the reasoning behind the smooth call pre-flop and c/r on the flop.

i prefer 3-betting pre-flop and taking it from there.

i play it the same way that the OP played it.