Assuming no read on either player, each player w/~500 at start; blinds 5-5; how do you play KK facing raise and re-raise, if:

1) raise/reraise is 25/80

2) raise/reraise is 30/125

I considered the possibility of a re-raise to 170 or so in situation 1. However, the possibility of making a weak-player commit all-in w/QQ, JJ, or AK in that situation is too high to consider folding to all in reraise given that even if you could peg AA, your E(V) on the call is only ~-150 or so.

A friend suggested a re-raise to 300 and an auto-push for the remainder on a call to the flop w/the hope of not giving AK two more cards to see, assuming that person would be capable of calling 300 pre-flop w/AK and laying it down on a missed flop for 200 more. This seems unlikely to me.

So, my question is: is it always necessary, excepting a very strong read, when facing a substantial raise and re-raise, to pot-commit (either by going all-in or betting 300 or so) with KK w/500 chips in 5-5 NL?

Why wouldn't you just put it all in preflop. What's the point of the $300 raise?

Only if it meant making a weak player w/QQ or JJ more likely to move in himself than call the all-in originally. It doesn't make any difference otherwise.

well, if you're facing a raise and reraise, if you move it in, you're likely to get called by the reraiser.

Position would really play a crutial part in this decision for me.

A re-raise is definately in order to get rid of the initial raiser. Either All in pre flop, or re-raise pre flop and all-in on the flop.

I would lean to all in preflop just because it makes it easier and I think he is calling it.

not at these stakes. only hands that will call are aa, kk, and possibly ak or qq
a good player folds qq like it's their job, ak would be a tough call here.


How i'd personally play it

1. call, flop: c/r all-in if there's no ace

2. push allin

I disagree here. If you only call, original raiser re-raises, and raiser calls, I can fold. But I can't risk the call and let the original raiser call w/AQ or AJ, and I'd prefer not to be up against two underpairs or an underpair and an A. I guess it's inevitable -- all-in.

I think calling is by far the worst play here... as stated below

"But I can't risk the call and let the original raiser call w/AQ or AJ, and I'd prefer not to be up against two underpairs or an underpair and an A"

You are going broke to AA either way Davin and spliting with KK. Pretty big pot already and I would be happy to take it down pre flop with an all in. Not to mention potentially doubling up against someone who can't let go of QQ, JJ, AKs.

You HAVE TO re-raise preflop to get the original raiser out of the hand then it is just a matter of whether you raise all in, or get it all in on the flop.

[quote=Captain_Walt]I think calling is by far the worst play here... as stated below

"But I can't risk the call and let the original raiser call w/AQ or AJ, and I'd prefer not to be up against two underpairs or an underpair and an A"

You are going broke to AA either way Davin and spliting with KK. Pretty big pot already and I would be happy to take it down pre flop with an all in. Not to mention potentially doubling up against someone who can't let go of QQ, JJ, AKs.

You HAVE TO re-raise preflop to get the original raiser out of the hand

i didn't realize it was 3 handed, i thought hero was the origingal raiser. yeah, you gotta move in now