3/6 ring

table is normally super loose passive

i limp A 10 either utg or utg+1, another player to my immediate left limps, then it surprisingly folds to the sb, who also folds, and the bb checks. weird.

(3.5 sb) 9 5 2

bb checks, i bet...

is it worth it in this miniscule pot?

i think flop texture is really important, huge reason why i chose to bluff this flop.

if the flop was 9 8 5 for example, i wouldn't do it. much more coordinated and much less likely i succeed.

aseem

This is a pretty standard play.

The flop is only slightly co-ordinated. You are likely to pick it up right now with little resistance. Even if you're called you have a lot of outs to improve. You don't semi-bluff often... :-)

far from it, when you don't raise preflop!

the pot is 3 sb, i don't think this is a standard play at all.


i don't think this is much of a semi-bluff with just two overs and a bdfd, but yes, the flop texture and the fact that bb checked (and the chances of this flop hitting the ep limper behind me were low) were the main factors that told me a bluff here be profitable (i.e. it might work more than 1 in 4 times).

aseem

Depends on how weak the table is. You say it's loose-passive...does that mean they fold to aggression or are they a bunch of post-flop calling stations? Against two opponents who are able to fold it looks fine. You have something like 7.5 outs to improve, too, if someone calls (probably less outs if someone raises).

How long were you at that table? I find my small pot bluffs work quite well after I've cultured an uberrock image for a few orbits. I often wonder if it's worth the effort though, given the small pot sizes.

Are we sure we don't want to raise preflop?

I'll admit... ATo gets me in a lot of trouble... or I fold and it leaves me wondering.

I've just spewed into entirely too many better kickers with it.

I guess that would be a good reason not to raise... but I tend to just say "screw it I fold" with ATo in EP.

is this an easy fold if BB had bet out?

If its a LAG BB, is it a raise..or no. because pot small.

thanks.

BTW: I bet here a lot in this hand.

the table was entirely loose both pre- and post-flop. but, since it was so strangely tight preflop, i thought it was reasonable that a bet might take it down here.

and while it can be considered a semi-bluff, almost any bluff can be considered a semi-bluff if you have one or more outs. i don't regularly semi-bluff weak draws (what i have), so i consider this more of a bluff than "betting with outs" or something.


table image is sooo irrelevant in these games. at least with my table selection skills, it is. :wink:


aseem

sure, if you want.

i really couldn't care less. preflop decisions that run so close as this (raising ~ folding ~ calling with ATo in EP) are so meaningless to me.

i think they're a little too good to fold on tables as weak as mine was, but i don't think they're strong enough to raise and be oop the whole hand. nothing wrong with limping.

aseem

yeah.

unless you like chasing weak draws getting 4-to-1 immediate and what will be 3-to-1 on the turn (maybe less because of rake). and with a player to act behind you who might raise.


no.

unless you like putting a bunch of money in a small pot with a weak draw. and with a player to act behind you might not fold. :-)

(while it's true that you might have the best hand, this would be a closer decision if it was heads-up... with a player to act behind you this is definitely not the case often enough to make raising profitable.)


you mean in this similar situation, where BB checks and the flop gives you overcards and a BDFD?

if so, i'd say it's spewing most of the time, because it's kind of rare to have overcards and a BDFD *and* have a ragged enough board that you have good fold equity.

but i'm not 100% sure.


aseem

just curious what an average 3/6 pacific table is like in terms of PT stats: VPIP, PFR, etc.

thanks

table selection matters.

tight tables (ring game) can be as low as 30% average vp$ip. i might have stumbled upon a few that were lower, maybe 25%, but that's a little rare.

a good table is usually 40%+. a great table, what you should strive for, is 50%+. really juicy tables are 60%-ish.

pfr% is almost irrelevant as far as game selection. i happen to prefer my tables to be really aggressive, others prefer really passive, whatever. both are juicy as long as you adapt correctly.

aseem

I should say I bet this exact hand 13/16 times.
To the extenst I bet slight variations as well, might be compounding or reducing my spewage meter.

That sounds about 14.3% above optimal.

yeah, I need to refine my game. :wink: