Two hands with A5s in the SB from a session last night.

I find myself lost playing A-little suited when I hit an ace. I'm folding and calling with it at the wrong times. I won't say whether I won or lost either of these pots, but I played them incorrectly regardless.

No reads on either hand. Short session, but they weren't maniacs.

Hand 1:

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5:spade:, A:spade:.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) A:diamond:, 4:spade:, 8:heart: (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) A:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

I butchered the turn. If I had it to do over again, I think I'd either bet/fold the turn or check/call it. The river looks like a bet/call to me either way if I'm in the hand. Thoughts?


Hand 2:

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5:spade:, A:spade:.
3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) A:club:, 7:diamond:, J:club: (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) K:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Bet/fold the turn or bet/call?

Help me out of my suckitude.

Jeff

Argh, wrong forum. Mods, any chance you'd move this to Holdem strat?

Jeff

Why no posty in THE section?

Hand 1: Wow. Bet/call all three streets. That's generally a terrible line. From my understanding, the main reason to pull bet/call on a turn after pulling it on the flop is to protect against draws that were raising for a free card, though I guess he might be pulling this with a 9 also (in which case, I think you want him to keep betting at you). That flop is relatively draw free, so I think it rules out the likelihood of him raising for a free card. I'd check/call the turn and bet/call the river.

Hand 2: Raise pre-flop. Hand plays somewhat differently after that. As you played it, bet/fold the turn, I think.

Axs can be tricky, particularly short-handed. Someone else can probably give you better general advice.

ok, forgetting preflop...

hand 1 after the flop raise looks like classic wa/wb...no?

hand 2 looks ok...but hows about c/r flop?

wow, this is a whole lot of spewing.

why are you bet/folding or check/calling the turn in hand 1? just check/fold. this is a tiny pot, you have a weak kicker. without a specific read that BB does this with a wide range of hands, you are usually beaten here, or at least beaten often enough to justify folding in this small pot.

(EDIT: i misread hand 2, it was a blind battle. c/c the whole way. standard... let him keep betting if he has a worse hand than aces, but lose the minimum if he beats A5.)

you're going too far with marginal hands in small pots, dude. basic lesson from SSHE... don't do it. that's what bad low-limit players do. that's a big reason we make money.

aseem

it confuses me when I see our hi limit palyers being Aggrrssive in Blind on Blind play and no one ever says this.
Help me to distinguish.
Sorry, no specific hands here to support my general comments

I'm harrassing you on these forums it seeems, aseem.
:wink:

Question:

Since in hand 1 there was one limper and in hand 2 it was a battle of the blinds, how bad of an idea is it to raise A5 suited preflop when in the SB under those conditions?

Aseem,

These hands are both six max.

In hand 1, I can see villian raising a lot of hands we beat on the flop.

I think the best line for hand 1 would bet:

bet/call, check/call, bet/call.

For hand 2:

check/call, bet/call, check/call.

I don't want to give a flush card free outs on the turn.

You may even be able to bet/fold the turn with a good read in hand 2.

If you know your opponent will continue to bet a flush draw, just check/call the whole way.

don't let it confuse you, a lot of players *definitely* spew in blind battles. i definitely have in the past, and since the summer, i've made a huge conscious effort to really play tighter in those battles. those edges, if they even exist, are so small that it's not worth the possibility that i'm spewing (taking negative edges).

however, blind play is also a little different because it's also a lot more about the player than a normal hand. that is, you often have the best hand with an underpair, or you can often push someone off a slightly better hand. metagame also comes into play, much more so than a normal non-blind hand.

aseem

a lot of people vastly bloat the whole deal with "six max". a lot of six max really isn't that different from ring. it's not like people are magically much more aggressive, etc.--table texture still determines all of that, and the fact that there are only six players doesn't change that to a huge degree.

without a read, continuing in hand one is easily spewing unless you're on a quite aggressive table--but in that case, you have at least a decent read that villian is probably characteristic of the table (i.e. he's aggressive).

if you don't believe him, i agree with your line that the turn should definitely not be bet; it should be check/called.

on the river, i strongly disagree. i much prefer check/calling, because if our opponent is aggressive enough to raise the flop with worse than an ace, he's aggressive enough to bet that river without it (in general). however, few players are so aggressive that they'll raise a river bet without an ace. so, you lose more when you're beat than you win. which makes c/c better than b/c.

aseem

i don't raise A5s in hand 1, but i definitely do raise it in hand 2 if it's folded over to me.

i ignored that aspect, but yes, A5s is very raisable when it folds to you in the SB.

aseem

btw, i'm no high limit player... yet. :-)

aseem

This makes sense.





While I agree that 6-max is not nearly as aggressive as the idea of six max (it took me a little while to figure that out), most opponents will play more aggressive in general because of this 'idea of six max'.

A lot of players will raise here with something like second pair.

Thanks for the replies, folks. Don't have time to respond to each one right now, but I don't disagree with what's been discussed. This is why I'm starting at .5/1 with 6 max

Jeff