This hand was just weird, the raise on the flop was automatic, I don't know, he did 3 bet too pf


5-10

I have 9-9 UTG, game's getting tight

Villian was 24 / 5 / 1.3 after 50 hands

I was, if I remember, something like 24 / 10 / 12 after the same number


I raise, people fold, Villian 3 bets, blinds fold, I call.

Flop: [Qc 7h 2s]

I check, Villian bets, I raise, Villian calls.

Turn: [Qc 7h 2s] [Js]

I check, Villian checks.

River: [Qc 7h 2s] [Js] [10c]

I check, Villian checks.

The flop c/r was bad.

The turn check was worse.

Do you plan on check/folding or check/calling?

He's checking behind with AK (maybe TT), and betting just about everything else.

I would guess a villian with these stats has a 3-betting range of AA-JJ and AK. He may have TT.

You have to bet this turn to charge him for the times he has AK, or to maybe get TT to fold.

I think you should bet somewhere. I'd lead the flop. If I checked the flop I'd lead the turn.

I like calling the flop bet and donking the turn vs this villian. I think this sets us up to lose the least when we are behind (which we likely are).

I don't really like betting the flop because many opponents will auto-raise with AK, and we still don't know where we are.

actually the flop c/r isn't bad. tim linked me to an old hand by NateThaGreat on 2+2 where he wrote that you can checkraise a lot more flops OOP HU with PP if there is a decent chance your opponent will check behind on some turns.

that said, this usually isn't the case in my games at all, so i much prefer a c/c-b/f line like tim suggested.

aseem

Aseem,

Are you talking about the 77 hand??

If so, Nate just check/called the flop bet.

ah, yes. thanks.

then do we bet the turn or check the turn? it seems that betting then ignores the reason Nate c/c'ed the flop in his hand.

but betting seems to protect against overcard non-pair hands and prevents them from getting free cards.

aseem

That's what was going through my head, that's part of the reason I C-Red the flop. It was kind of automatic.

Then on the turn, I changed to thinking I was going to lose the hand and thought I was getting check raised (or called down and beat) so I checked. It wasnt a free card attempt (but it kind of was). AA-JJ had me fried, I was considering giving up on the turn if he bet. It does conflict with the C-R on the flop so it was a goof.

I do this sometimes

C-C the flop, then check the turn and see if I get a free card

I remember posting a hand on here You responded to, which I did that against an unknown opponent. Flop came Ace high, I had 10-10, C-C the flop, and checked the turn to him. He bet so I folded.

I think the main difference in the two hands is that a Q fell here instead of a K, and that villian is unlikely to 3-bet AQ given his stats.

Since villian has a smaller 3-betting range, we are ahead here more often than in Nate's hand. If we had a better read on the villian, we may be able to safely check/fold the turn here.

But since we know nothing apart from his stats, I think we would have to call a turn bet and then check/fold the river UI.

If we are going to call a turn bet anyway, I would rather give AK the chance to fold/deny it the chance to see a free river.

What do You guys think he has?

AK is the logical choice.
Too bad that's probably not it if you're asking :?

BTW, given likely his hand range, I really don't see why you're check/raising this flop.

You are behind more often than not, and a c/r will not get AK to fold the flop. More often than not, you are just putting in more money with a hand that has slim chances to win.

If an ace hit the flop in this hand, you should check/fold.

Yeah this hand baffled me because I won and I thought I was going to lose. I still goofed it up. The usual lines for me I think would be to C-C the flop, C-F the turn OR B-F the flop and move on

AK has broadway on the river.

he usually has 88-.

aseem

I think you need to put in at least 1BB on the turn to find out if you're ahead.

If we put his range on AA-TT, and AK (which it obviously wasn't if you won :-) ), then you're ahead on the turn around 35% of the time. That's too much equity to give up on so easily. Either bet/fold, or check/call-fold.

[quote="screech"][quote]

I think you need to put in at least 1BB on the turn to find out if you're ahead.

If we put his range on AA-TT, and AK (which it obviously wasn't if you won :-) ), then you're ahead on the turn around 35% of the time. That's too much equity to give up on so easily. Either bet/fold, or check/call-fold.[/quote]

17% of the time, but of course I can also bluff out TT.

[quote="dimseven"][quote=screech][quote]

I think you need to put in at least 1BB on the turn to find out if you're ahead.

If we put his range on AA-TT, and AK (which it obviously wasn't if you won :-) ), then you're ahead on the turn around 35% of the time. That's too much equity to give up on so easily. Either bet/fold, or check/call-fold.[/quote]

17% of the time, but of course I can also bluff out TT.

[/quote]

Actually, it's even more than 35% on the turn. :wink:

AA/KK/TT - 18 combos
QQ/JJ - 6 combos
AK - 16 combos

So villian has AK 16/40 = 40% of the time on the turn.

He has TT 6/40 = 15% of the time.

A flop c/r and a turn lead will fold TT maybe twice as much as flop call and a turn lead, but it costs an extra 0.5BB. I don't think it's worth it to try to fold TT.

Do You think like this in real time?

yep, the HU check raise (which only happens OOP, unless I'm missing a fundamental understanding of poker) is often intended to earn a free card, because the opponent doesn't want to fall victim to the same fate twice. If of course his hand has improved on the next street or he had you the whole way, it's another matter.

Unfortunately not.

I just ask the 8 ball what course of action to take and proceed as directed. I analyze the hands afterwards to see if it was right.

c/c - b/f is standard here and it works. You need to put in more bets there you let 2 SCARY cards come off and his AK would have beat you if he had it.

What did he have here? 88-55? You both played it too passively IMHO.