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Full Version: did i play this ak poorly? what should i have done?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Bubba83
Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K:heart:, A:club:.
2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) Q:diamond:, 2:spade:, 4:club: (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 8:club: (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 2:diamond: (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Villain is mostly Loose Passive, but seems to perk up this hand. Could I have played this differently? Folded anywhere?

Thanks!
speedz99
Raise the flop. Call a 3-bet. Fold the turn to any aggression.

If your flop raise is called, and checked to you one the turn, bet out.
Bubba83
I don't like that line at all, what is he possibly going to cap with that i'm ahead of unless we both have AK? I'm being too aggressive with this line to hopefully split a pot and most likely I'm behind and will just lose more with this line.
Actuary
QUOTE (speedz99)
Raise the flop.  Call a 3-bet.  Fold the turn to any aggression.  

If your flop raise is called, and checked to you one the turn, bet out.


QUOTE (Bubba83)
I don't like that line at all, what is he possibly going to cap with that i'm ahead of unless we both have AK?  I'm being too aggressive with this line to hopefully split a pot and most likely I'm behind and will just lose more with this line.



What if villan calls flop raise and leads turn?

I say we fold the turn; otherwise I like how OP played it.
AK usually won't cap, unless suited.
Far more likely they have JJ-AA.
Given you passive read, I really don't see AK
CobaltBlue
AK isn't a hand that I want to show down UI when the pot is capped pre-flop against a reasonable opponent. Raise the flop...the hand plays differently then.

The way you played it, fold the turn.
speedz99
QUOTE (Bubba83)
I don't like that line at all, what is he possibly going to cap with that i'm ahead of unless we both have AK?  I'm being too aggressive with this line to hopefully split a pot and most likely I'm behind and will just lose more with this line.


If that's your thinking then you should just be folding the flop. Calling down is your worst option here...what could you possibly beat?

At least by raising the flop you either slow the villain down or save a big bet.
waldo
what hand can you beat on the river, he capped it preflop, so he doesnt have KJ or AJ, and every other hand beats you, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, every other pocket pair, you cant beat AQ

what did you think he had when you were calling?

you even said he was passive and all of a sudden he caps it, comeon man, use some common sense
screech
QUOTE (speedz99)
Raise the flop.  Call a 3-bet.  Fold the turn to any aggression.  

If your flop raise is called, and checked to you one the turn, bet out.


Speedz,

Why do you want to raise the flop?

Would you raise a small gutshot here? If not, you had better not raise this flop either. We are drawing to six outs at best here. There's no real need to clean up outs.

Bubba, given that this guy is passive, I'd fold the river.
Bubba83
I called on the turn still trying to hit an ace or a king, which may have been a mistake since some of those could definitely be dirty. I called the river because I felt like it was reasonable enough we could tie with AK considering how big the pot was. Given my rather passive read, he quite possibly should have slowed down with AK on the turn, so maybe it was a bad call, but I'd rather just fold the turn now that I look back I think.
screech
QUOTE (Bubba83)
I called on the turn still trying to hit an ace or a king, which may have been a mistake since some of those could definitely be dirty.  I called the river because I felt like it was reasonable enough we could tie with AK considering how big the pot was.  Given my rather passive read, he quite possibly should have slowed down with AK on the turn, so maybe it was a bad call, but I'd rather just fold the turn now that I look back I think.


I think you're call on the turn was fine, even though your outs are dirty. Remember, he may still have AK. If he does, he'll likely check on the river.
timwakefield
I think in general you should fold ak when you miss the flop UNLESS you're the aggressor.
Sushiman
Well how passive is the guy? Does he have high standards for capping? The flop doesn't tell you much since any hand that capped will do a continuation bet here. You have two overs and two runner draws. I raise the flop and ditch to a threebet or if he leads the turn. Checking down is definitely bad.
TJ_Eckleburg
QUOTE (timwakefield)
I think in general you should fold ak when you miss the flop UNLESS you're the aggressor.


I realize it's a generalization, but that's still bad advice.

What do you put him on for the cap preflop, and how many outs do you have, and is the pot big enough to chase those outs?

That is the eternal question in limit with overcards.
timwakefield
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
QUOTE (timwakefield)
I think in general you should fold ak when you miss the flop UNLESS you're the aggressor.


I realize it's a generalization, but that's still bad advice.

What do you put him on for the cap preflop, and how many outs do you have, and is the pot big enough to chase those outs?

That is the eternal question in limit with overcards.



I gave that advice because most people overplay ak. I think the best way to get value from it is to play it when it hits and fold it when it doesn't against an aggressor (especially if the aggressort capped it preflop).
princeof56k
QUOTE (waldo)
what hand can you beat on the river, he capped it preflop, so he doesnt have KJ or AJ, and every other hand beats you, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, every other pocket pair, you cant beat AQ

what did you think he had when you were calling?

you even said he was passive and all of a sudden he caps it, comeon man, use some common sense


Doesnt he have to call the river with 12.5 BB in the pot when it gets to him? While I probably wouldnt take this hand to the river, I usually call with any pair or Ace high if its heads up on the river and the pot is over 10 BB. You would be very suprised by the moves some people make when the pot gets large.
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