3/6 ring

i have K J in early/mid.

EP limps, ..., i limp, ... CO limps, ..., BB checks.

(4.5 SB) K 7 2

BB checks, EP bets, i fold...

EP is 0/0 over 19 hands.


maybe i'm bloating the sickness of this hand, but i kept thinking... "holy shit!"

aseem

You got 19 hands on him and he's folded everything?

yeah.

this is way correct, right?

aseem

I feel nauseous. Im gonna be sick.

Yeah I guess it isn't bad at all. This sucks, out of curiosity, I raise and fold to any more aggression.

C'mon...y'all haven't ever had a really terrible run of 19 hands? I know that I have.

Youre a maniac.

Calm down

Who me?

lol, i can't wait to share the results.

but really, more discussion please!

cold run of 19 cards... maybe.

but, this guy is obviously tight, which means he obviously knows at least SOME things. which means he just might be a little position aware.

since he limped in EP, that just scared the crap out of me when he played his first hand in 20 hands and decided to limp with it under the freaking gun.

what's the harm in folding? it's such a tiny pot, even if i make a mistake.

i agree that if this was a big pot, making this "expert laydown" is the crappity. but, this pot is el tinyo.

thoughts?

aseem

I hope there is more discussion. But unless someone can try to sway me, I like raising here and getting to showdown for cheap, folding if we have to.

You were serious?

...?

do i sound like i'm not?

aseem

I thought the original post was a joke, You sounded like it.

It's just 19 hands.

You think it was AA?

"Pay that man his money." -Teddy KGB

dude.

We aren't at the punchline yet. This doesn't look like a 1 liner.

lol.

the pot is tiny. his VP$IP is zero over 19 hands.

if it was like 5 hands, sure. 10 hands, yeah i guess.

but 1 hand out of 20 hands?

how often are you folding 20 straight hands? i think a cold run of 20 completely unplayable cards from a tight player isn't THAT common.

plus, his position.

why should i pay this terrible nit tight-ass rock? even if i have the best hand, it's such a tiny pot--is it really worth it??

aseem

Ok you limped fine fold if you feel like it. It is fine and you are using your technology so it isn't a far fetched move.

p.s. :shock:

lol. i'm not trying to act all defensive and not listen to advice, but i really thought this was an interesting situation.

i posted a similar hand a long time ago where i folded KQo preflop in MP after a super rock limped UTG. i think the consensus was that i shouldn't have folded, but it was really close. some discussion about abdul ____ (always forget his last name) was brought up, and i remember you linked me to a lot of his works--good stuff.

aseem

It could be also be 9 pairs that didn't hit the flop to set that isn't aces.

it could be.

but i also thought about implied or reverse implied odds.

how much is a hand worse than a pair of kings going to pay me if i choose to continue? this guy is obviously a super nit.

how much am i going to pay off aces or a set if i choose to continue?

i think answer 2 is a LOT greater than answer 1.

aseem

I don't know I'd be more than 50 percent sure that I had the best hand.

Is calling one bet on the flop that bad? You can re-evaluate on the turn and see what he does. He could check, he could bet again. If he was super tight, he'd check with a lesser pair. Isn't it WA-WB but in positionm

Raise that flop and stop being such a meooow. :wink:

Lets take the assupmtion that is a TAG. Folding 19 hands in a row is pretty common, only takes some cold cards and EP raises when he has a marginal hand. If he is a good player, betting that board with Ace high or a PP is not unreasonable.

On the other hand if he is a nit he likely has AK, KQ as even nits raise AA,KK preflop. Raising a nit here will quite possibly get a call and turn check even with AK, getting you a freecard or showdown if you feel the need.

Finally he may well your generic fish with some obscure reason for not playing the first 19 hands.

Fair enough you can let it go to a 3 bet, but folding what may be the best hand here is not good.

The other advantage of raising here (apart from the fact you could possibly take the hand now) is that you probably will get to showdown cheaply and cement your read.

So what did he have?

I'm over the suspense

This is one of those fold or raise situations. I see a lot of players limp with AK because they view it as a "drawing hand". You probably have 3 good outs with the Jacks and no straight or flush draw. The pot is small so just walk away and pick up the next up.

Are you telling me you've never had a run of 30 hands where you didn't play a damn thing (except the BB when you didn't get raised).

I know I have....and the last thing I am is tight.

I've had those runs where hands you'd play from the button show up UTG, hands you'd limp or call one raise with on the button are two bets to go by the time it gets to you, along with the assortment of crap you normally get.

It's very easy for 19 hands (two runs around the table) to get T2, J7, Q3, K3, 94, and so on...very easy...it's a helluva lot easier to play 0/19 hands than it is to play 19/19 hands.

I think you need to raise here.

If he's as tight as you think he may have limped with QQ here, but is betting the flop to see where he's at....people who play tight don't necessarily play scared, and, since he has folded 19/19 hands, you have absolutely no information on his post-flop play.


And, there's even a chance if he's had a bad run of cards he's getting impatient and is playing crap just for the sake of getting some action.

ok, time for results.

this was a REALLY sick hand, can't emphasize enough.

so, EP had K K . i'm glad i folded.

but, CO was a maniac.

he raised, BB folded, EP three-bet, CO called.

turn is A .

EP bets, CO raises, EP three-bets, CO caps, EP calls.

river is A .

EP bets, CO raises, EP three-bets, CO caps, EP calls.

CO shows A 2 , EP mucks.

holy ****ing shit!!!

LOL

aseem

Turn pro make millions

- AlB

following the ways of aseem, I shall read no replies before commenting.

Horrible weak fold.
Horrible call pf probably, if you were that quick to fold.

Turn PT and HUD off if they make you do this after a 19 hands' read.
Just horrible.


ok.
Now I"ll read.

Okay, I didn't mind this fold on the flop actually, but I have a quick question. If you think he could have AA KK or AK here why do you call preflop? Because your hand is semi-connected and suited? Cause otherwise, what else are you really hoping to flop if you won't think your pair of kings or jacks is good?

So he can make quad jacks and PUNISH.

I played some NL today and I saw 1 flop over a period of 53 hands, I had a V$IP of 0.

Thanks for that comment, 19 hands means nothing, results oriented.

Aseem,

I don't know anyone with a faster mind than you.
That being said, you make some over-thought plays imo.

I can learn so much from you; so maybe I'm just not ready to learn this yet.

yah I was debating whether rubbing one out or killing a kitten was the best thing to do while sitting there.

kitten fur feels pretty good on your nuts...
If it's not tame, kill it first.

Wait...

Doesn't God kill a kitten every time you masturbate?

Or was that just a cute poster I saw one time.

So sad.

- Jordan

i admit that id idn't see the numbers when i limped in preflop. i mean, how many people actually do when the pot is unraised?

still not convinced it was a bad fold, but i might be biased. trying not to be results oriented.

i realize 19 hands isn't a lot, but isn't it slightly significant that his first hand is under the gun? he wanted to limp-reraise the kings, fwiw.

aseem

you have the best hand so much on a flop like this. Sure, he could have a set or something but most of the time he doesnt.

We have top pair with a good kicker. How can we fold for 1 sb? We should be raising. He could have a weaker king or a medium pair. He could have wiffed with nothing and felt like stabing at a small pot. its only 19 hands...

raising preflop is good for a number of reasons too.

Honestly it doesn't really matter. He had one bet invested. Nothing wrong with Freedom of choice.

Aseem Abdul's last name is Jalib. Here is the link again for anyone interested in Abdul's work. http://web.archive.org/web/20030608175113/...tegy/index.html 8)

p.s. I still say "Pay that man his money" though. :-)