Reading up on 2+2 Small Blind play has been simplified preflop to only completing with 2 cards > T, any 2 suited cards and any pair (in an unraised pot).

What do you do here :

Hero is dealt : T Q in the small blind.

2 folds, CO calls, Dealer Calls, Hero completes

I completed when there was no raise, here I am getting the same odds however the situation is different as there is now a raise. I am out of position with a marginal hand when there is no raise.

What is the correct play here? Getting 7:1 with no raise I figured QT was worth a complete in the small blind in an unraised pot. What happens after the raise?

TruePoker

Call.

yep.

Call.

You're effectively getting the same odds as before. And you're just weak as anything if you can call a quarter bet getting good odds but not a half bet STILL getting the SAME odds.

I know it's the same odds.... The situation is different...

Had I been in the Big Blind and been dealt QT, I would not have called getting 7 : 1 odds with a raiser / caller / SB complete...

I have worse position than I would have in the BB

good point.
I do it for image, and we don't have a horrible hand.
Players who fold for one after limping, look weak.
Not that most notice..but.

Also, another point:
BB like his hand.
You will probably win a heftier pot now when you make the best hand.

Implied odds might be less..but I'd rather PROFIT 12 BB's puting in 1.5 pf than profit 6 BB putting in 0.5 pf.

You will also get much better odds to chase gut shots prfitably

but do you call in the BB with QT, when someone raises preflop and its 7:1 to you?

I know you get better odds to draw to gutshots, but if you play NL and raise 1 million preflop with 27 it doesnt matter what the flop is if you only have 10 dollars left... what I am trying to say is, you can't justify plays later because you have made mistakes now.

You also are in worse position than if you were BB as you are in one spot worse. We may be 12.5% favourite or better here, it is doubtful but our reverse implied odds are horrible.

If you get married to a pair of queens, yes. But you're supposed to know your post flop play.

Even if you don't get married, reverse implied odds is still relevant based on the cost required to find out that you are losing...

it's close.
You don't lose much playing or folding.
On EV alone, folding does make sense against typical range of raising hands from BB.

another point... You are closing the action at least.

I call... Ev be damned, meta game

to be honest, I don't think players are going to raise from the BB just because you folded in SB. And you will see how others play as there are more players left in. For Metagame I disagree with you.

Personally I fold. Not sure how right it is though. If it were suited I would definately call. I just had a hand like this but it was K10 os and I folded fwiw.

Typically the range of hands people raise with out of BB is narrow and you're most likely in pretty bad shape. That coupled with the fact that it's hard to get value out of your hands from your position, I would fold.

Heres a few questions I am not sure anybody has asked yet....

1. what kind of player is the BB? Is he tight or looose?
2. How often does he raise in general...you goal is to limp this hand so if it is more than likely hes going to raise you may want to consider that
3. what hands has he shown down on his raises? Has aces and kings and queens been shown on a raise or has he shown crappy cards?

Knowing the type of person in the BB will hlep you to make this call

but for this generic situation im calling

In actual fact the player was tight, well actually usualy he is a average / passive player. Someone said to him "don't slowplay everything you donkey" and he started being one of the most aggressive players at the table. After about a week of play this was this guy had only raised AA / AK and 33 vs blinds preflop. To be honest I couldn't really put this guy on a range of hands as he was "on tilt". He was 3-betting flush draws on flop and betting them on the turn.

whoa, weird answers.

i regularly fold QTo here, adn i think you guys should too.

guys, here's a similar example:

UTG raises, two cold-calls, SB folds. you have QTo.

you're getting 7-to-1, you're still in the worst position, and you still have the raiser to your immediate left. oh yeah, and you still have 1 SB invested in the pot (if you want to talk about having more equity in teh blinds than outside).

calling there? i hope not.

this isn't that close, IMHO.

aseem

see against a mouse type player im not worried since he isnt going to be raising 9 out of 10 times...but against somebody who raises a lot more you want to be weary of what you limp b/c there is a likely chance he is going to be raising it up

I personally don't like the limp with Q10o here. Q10s fine, but you don't have that much high card or straight potential to make it worth it though. However, after you limp you should call the raise. If you catch a big hand, you should get a very nice pot as you can check/raise the field with the raiser on your left.

Something else to note, is your position isn't as bad as you think it is. With the preflop aggressor on your immediate left, he's almost guaranteed to bet any flop and now your position is more like the button as last to act.

Zara

quit being so fucking arrogant, please.

Yes I fold your example too, in the BB, with a raise before me.
I also folds KJ off to a EP raise in MP2
Doesn't mean I would fold KJ off after calling 2 limpers and BB raises.







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call of raise is lighter than original limp, imo
Your position relative to raiser is ideal for either a c/r or bet and hope he raises on the flop, or a c/f.

Uh...I call in the BB to an EP raiser with QT and KJ. I'm pretty sure you all should too.

As for the original question...call. I don't think it's even that close with you closing the action.

IMHO, anyways.

really? :shock:

Speedz99 or Ed Miller ..hmmm... I'll go with Ed.


give me 5 cold callers..I'll consider it.

The situations aren't the same. It usually indicates more strength for the people to cold call than to limp. It is far more likely that you are dominated in the BB example due to people cold calling with things like KQs or A10 while these are somewhat normal raising hands if there isn't a raise before you. In the BB example your reverse implied odds are worse as well in the rare case of a flop like Q107 if one of the cold callers has 77 or 1010 when they might have raised when it's folded/limped to them in the SB example.

Zara