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Full Version: aa hand - do you ever lay them down in a headup pot?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
jayboogie
Hero has AA in sb

utg+2 raises, hero 3-bets, utg+2 caps, hero calls

At this point, I'm obviously putting utg+2 on a big hand.

FLOP: 3 7 9 Rainbow

hero checks, utg+2 bets, hero raises, utg+2 3-bets, hero caps, utg+2 calls

I'm putting utg+2 on a big pair right now, probably kings.

TURN: K

hero bets, utg+2 raises, hero???

I really hate this card, but decide to bet anyways to re-evaluate if I'm raised, now that I've been raised, I'm just about certain I'm beat by a set. AK doesn't make much sense given the flop play and if by some slight chance he has Aces, I'm still only going to chop. I'm also only drawing to 2 outs if he does have kings. My question is does anybody lay this down given their read?
shortypoke
Reads affect this hand for me.

However, I NEVER fold AA in this spot. I can't think of a situation where I'd fold AA in a heads up LHE pot. Ever.
jayboogie
QUOTE (shortypoke)
Reads affect this hand for me.

However, I NEVER fold AA in this spot. I can't think of a situation where I'd fold AA in a heads up LHE pot. Ever.


How does reads affect the hand if you never fold AA here?
shortypoke
Sorry, it doesn't affect whether or not I fold. My read affects when I stop bet/raising and go into call-down mode. From this hand, that might start right about where you left off.

I certainly wouldn't lay it down, though.
TJ_Eckleburg
Can't fold.

Call-down mode after the turn isn't a bad idea.

Definitely can't fold.
jayboogie
QUOTE (shortypoke)
Sorry, it doesn't affect whether or not I fold. My read affects when I stop bet/raising and go into call-down mode. From this hand, that might start right about where you left off.

I certainly wouldn't lay it down, though.


I see absolutely no reason to 3-bet here, that would just be plain chip spewing. What kinds of hands is somebody capping with pre-flop, capping the flop and not slowing down when a K hits on the turn?
jayboogie
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
Can't fold.

Call-down mode after the turn isn't a bad idea.

Definitely can't fold.


I wouldn't say there's absolutes in poker where you can't ever fold. If you feel your beat, making the laydown is fine IMO.
KappaKid83
QUOTE (shortypoke)
Reads affect this hand for me.

However, I NEVER fold AA in this spot. I can't think of a situation where I'd fold AA in a heads up LHE pot. Ever.
TheIceman05
QUOTE (jayboogie)
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
Can't fold.

Call-down mode after the turn isn't a bad idea.

Definitely can't fold.


I wouldn't say there's absolutes in poker where you can't ever fold. If you feel your beat, making the laydown is fine IMO.


Based on the size of the pot, and given the preflop and flop action, it's impossible to be sure enough that you're beat to fold here.

You're right that there are times it is correct to fold even getting great odds. I folded with top-two today getting 23-1 on the river for a single bet, and I was correct to do so.

But this is different. He's hammering the pot with the other two AA, AK, QQ, KQ(?), or something silly often enough for you to have to call this down.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 99 or KK, but I still don't fold, unless you have a read that says, "He doesn't raise the turn on this board unless he has a set". He could have even picked up a dumbarse flush draw on the turn.

Absent reads, calldown, and curse your luck/go on tilt when you lose
jayboogie
I know the standard play is to obviously call down and just accept that you've been bad beated, but I was just looking for an alternative way to play the hand and wanted to know if laying down Aces in this spot could ever be justified. Of course, you can never really be 100% sure about a hand, but I was fairly confident in my read that I was beat in this spot. I posted this hand just for some opinions on whether it'd ever be correct to make this laydown.
jayistheman
only fold here if your opponent's hand is face up...... and you have very very clear vision..... preferrably in a well-lit room.
CobaltBlue
If I have A icon_suit_club.gif A icon_suit_spade.gif on a board of Q icon_suit_heart.gif J icon_suit_heart.gif T icon_suit_heart.gif 9 icon_suit_heart.gif, and I'm facing heavy action heads-up, I might be tempted to lay down.
psujohn
You beat me to it. About the only time I can think of to fold AA HU is with a 4 flush on the board and I don't have the suit. Even then it might be worth a call.

I can't see folding this hand here though I certainly go into call down mode.
TheCinciKid
QUOTE (jayboogie)
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
Can't fold.

Call-down mode after the turn isn't a bad idea.

Definitely can't fold.


I wouldn't say there's absolutes in poker where you can't ever fold. If you feel your beat, making the laydown is fine IMO.


I think it's a tough fold, and I probably wouldn't make it, but it's definitely one I would consider making.

Just a thought, but what about going into calldown mode when the K falls? Too weak? It probably is, but I'm just throwing it out there. Either way, I don't think I could fold AA here, but that may very well be a spew based on the action.
jayboogie
I know it's incredibly standard to call down in this spot, but I'm just trying to see if an argument can be made for folding when your confident that your beat. This obviously would be a thinking outside the box type of laydown and really I think it can be made in certain instances like this one. I think if I knew my opponent a little bit better, I would be able to lay this down. Also what should be put into consideration is you'll have to call 2 more big bets if you decide to call down.

I guess I should also add this wasn't a low limit hold'em game, if it was, this call down would be automatic. Anyways, I ended up calling it down knowing I was beat and he turned up KK like I expected, of course this hardly matters, but I just believe a case can be made for making an unorthodox laydown sometimes even given what seems to be proper odds. I just thought it'd be interesting to discuss that.
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