Level 10 - 250/500 Ante 40 - Limit Razz

1h 40m into tournament ~18 left out of 56 players.

I'm at T2648 (well below the average stack.)

Seat 2: Villian1 (2,545)
Seat 3: Villian2 (5,653)
Seat 4: Villian3 (10,997)
Seat 5: Hero (2,648)
Seat 6: Villian4 (2,050)
Seat 7: Villian5 (6,758)
Seat 8: Villian6 (199)

Villian1 antes 40
Villian2 antes 40
Villian3 antes 40
Hero antes 40
Villian4 antes 40
Villian5 antes 40
Villian6 antes 40

*** 3RD STREET ***
(Pot: T280)

Dealt to Villian1 [xx xx] [T:diamond:] ___folds
Dealt to Villian2 [xx xx] [3:heart:] ___calls
Dealt to Villian3 [xx xx] [Q:heart:] ___brings in (75) ___folds
Dealt to Hero---- [2:diamond: 2:heart:] [6:club:] ___completes (250)
Dealt to Villian4 [xx xx] [9:club:] ___folds
Dealt to Villian5 [xx xx] [J:diamond:] ___calls
Dealt to Villian6 [xx xx] [8:spade:] ___calls 159 (all-in)


*** 4TH STREET *** (Dead: 9:club:T:diamond:Q:heart:)
(Pot: T1264)

Dealt to Villian2 [xx xx] [3:heart:T:spade:] ___bets (250)
Dealt to Hero---- [2:diamond:2:heart:] [6:club:T:club:] ___call
Dealt to Villian5 [xx xx] [J:diamond:A:heart:] ___call
Dealt to Villian6 [xx xx] [8:spade:T:heart:] (all-in)


[b]*** 5TH STREET *** (Dead: 9:club:T:diamond:Q:heart:)
(Pot: T2014)

Dealt to Villian2 [xx xx] [3:heart:T:spade:J:club:] ___call
Dealt to Hero---- [2:diamond:2:heart:] [6:club:T:club:3:spade:] ___bets (500)
Dealt to Villian5 [xx xx] [J:diamond:A:heart:4:diamond:] ___call
Dealt to Villian6 [xx xx] [8:spade:T:heart:7:diamond:] (all-in)


[b]*** 6TH STREET *** (Dead: 9:club:T:diamond:Q:heart:)
(Pot: T3514)

Dealt to Villian2 [xx xx] [3:heart:T:spade:J:club:8:diamond:] ___call
Dealt to Hero---- [2:diamond:2:heart:] [6:club:T:club:3:spade:5:club:] ___bets (500)
Dealt to Villian5 [xx xx] [J:diamond:A:heart:4:diamond:4:heart:] ___call
Dealt to Villian6 [xx xx] [8:spade:T:heart:7:diamond:7:club:] (all-in)


[b]*** 7TH STREET *** (Dead: 9:club:T:diamond:Q:heart:)
(Pot: T5014)

Dealt to Villian2 [xx xx] [3:heart:T:spade:J:club:8:diamond:] [xx] ___check
Dealt to Hero---- [2:diamond:2:heart:] [6:club:T:club:3:spade:5:club:] [Q:diamond:] ___check
Dealt to Villian5 [xx xx] [J:diamond:A:heart:4:diamond:4:heart:] [xx]___check
Dealt to Villian6 [xx xx] [8:spade:T:heart:7:diamond:7:club:] [xx] (all-in)


3rd: I'm just trying to steal this hand here with an early completion.

4th: Unsure about the call here. Fold or Raise?

5th: I'm now a small favorite, and decide to keep the pressure on, hoping one of the Jack highs will fold.

6th: I'm now a huge favorite, and bet with not much thought. A check raise would be nice, but I don't see anyone betting into me.

7th: I'm a pessimist, and almost concede defeat. Should I have bet here? Anyone going to lay down for 500 with a 5k pot? This is probably a spot I struggle with (having a good hand on sixth, but not improving on seventh.)


(I'll post results of the hand later if there is any interest.)

.: Comatose :.

I would continue to bet this hand. I think this would put you all in and you would want to try to thin the field. I'm really only worried about villian 2 having 8xxxxx. If this is the case, he calls anyway.

Man this was a loose table. I assume this was Full Tilt. I've been playing a lot of micro limit razz there, .25/.50. I love it.

I'm folding 4th here. you don't have the best hand to be continuing with aggression and your steal attempt failed. the ten is a real bad card, becasue we are paired in the hole. being paired in the hole is akin to being involved in a PLO pot with a dangler, you're just limiting how good your final hand can be.

6th is bad too, all you have is a ten low. I want to be betting into this field with an 8 here, and to be honest, I want the 8 to be as smooth as possible, or at least have a smooth draw that can improve to a 7 or a 6

This is much better advise!!!!

Even though you have two two's (which limits the number of two's available for your opponents), I think its a fold on 4th street there. Not sure how the table ha been playing prior to this hand, but it seems very loose to me, which tells me that you can sit back and let the loosey-goosey's bust out while you move up/closer to the pay scale, until you get a better hand. 8)

I can understand getting out on 4th, but I'm a little confused by your advice on 6th. The odds break out like this:

Player-----%Win
Villian2--- 8%
Hero-------- 76%
Villian5--- 7%
Villian6--- 7%

Exact Odds: http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1258100

Are you saying you don't want action with this kind of edge? Or are you saying this isn't that big of an edge in Razz? Even if Villian2 has the perfect hole cards, I'm still a 55% favorite:

Assuming Villian2 has a 2 and 4 in the hole:
Player-----%Win
Villian2--- 34%
Hero-------- 55%
Villian5--- 5%
Villian6--- 4%

Exact Odds: http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1258809

Yes I only have a T high, but lets look at it in more detail:

At best my opponents have:
Villian2--- T-8 low
Villian5--- J4 low
Villian6--- T-8 low
Hero-------- T-6 low

Villian5 is the only opponent that might have a better draw. So I'm sitting on the best hand and possibly the best draw.

Trying to steal on 3rd usually is fine, but even with two good you don't want a call, especially more than one. I assume if people are calling with jacks up in this hand, that they did it earlier, so you should've had fair warning that people are playing like idiots. Don't try to steal through loose players, even when shortstacked. Just wait for a premium hand and double/triple/quadruple through.

stealing on 3rd in razz is HUGE, especially in tourneys, and you should try and steal at every chance you get. Keep in mind, even if you try to steal and get called you have a 50-50 shot to outdraw the other person and be able to take the hand down on 4th anyway. In a tournament stealing becomes even more important, since stack size matters much more than a cash game.

I think calling on 4th is ok, but I would prefer raising to try and isolate the raiser. Raising also keeps up the charade that you have a big hand, which gives you a shot to win the pot on 5th if you catch and he bricks. Once you played out the hand the way you did, I think you almost have to check 7th, too many hands can beat you, a 10 low against 1 drawing player is fine, but against 2 drawing players you arent the favorite to win the hand, and checking is correct, though you are forced to call any bet made here since there is so much in the pot and you are shortstacked (about 1100 left if you lose the hand I believe).

Keep in mind in reading this that I personally play a much more aggressive style of razz then most people, which is why I would raise on 4th and then try and buy the pot later in the hand.

Really curious about this -- raised this question with KDawgCometh as well. Based on http://twodimes.net the odds are:

Player-----%Win
Villian2--- 8%
Hero-------- 76%
Villian5--- 7%
Villian6--- 7%

This looks like I'm actually a huge favorite. I'm assuming twodimes calculates the odds correctly? Assuming they do, what kind of edge are you looking for on 6th? 76% seems pretty good to me.

.: Comatose :.

Heres what I think the problem is, you gave yourself 6 cards and the other people only 4 cards, I dont think the site is designed to work like that. Because realistically, in this situation, I dont see how you can by 76% to win, it looks like everyone else is drawing to a hand that can beat you. Put in what the other 3 actually had then compute your odds to win the hand.

edit: the 76% would be I believe if you gave yourself those 6, gave the other plaeyers the 4 they have. You now get 1 more card and they each get 3 more, you are 76% to win. However these odds are much worse in the actual situation, because you have to assume that everyone in the hand had a good drawing hand, or else they wouldnt still be in