when do you want to limit the field in Razz and when do you want many players in the pot?

when is OK to raise or re-raise pre-flop?

It seems to me that since Razz is a drawing game, that you should always be trying to limit the field. Like playing big pairs in 7 card stud. Is this correct? what are the exceptions?

Thanks,
Noah

It depends on the players. When you have people behind you who will call with a bad one in the hole, you don't mind if they tag along when you have a premium hand.

If the game's pretty good, I'd probaby make an isolation raise with any great hand and when the opener is a loose competer. I'm trying to snatch up the value of his bad play for myself.

you always want to limit the field in razz, since no matter how good of a 3 card hand you have its no good unless you improve to 5 cards. One of the worst plays you can make in razz imo, is the limp reraise with a monster, because all the chasers that have limped will call, and though you will be the favorite to win the hand, you wont be over a 50% favorite against so many other hands. In most cases when someone has raised if I have a strong hand Im just going to call. The only time I think its really worth 2 betting is if people limped in front of the first raiser, and you are trying to force them to fold there hand.

basically in summary, you want as few people in the pot as possible, since it gives you a better likelyhood of drawing the best card and being able to take down the pot. razz isnt like holdem where you starting hand can be good enough to win, you must improve or you cannot win.

edit: I play a ton of razz on full tilt, if u have any strategy questions feel free to im me or post them and i'll do my best to answer them, so many people play razz badly because they just don't understand the game. in most cases it isnt about what you have, but about what your opponent has and what you can represent

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you are saying.

So, we have the bring-in, a 5 raises, an 7 calls, and another 8 calls, you have (23)A, are you saying you wouldn't re-raise in this situation? I think you would, but it was just unclear.

in that situation, I would re-raise, and hope that the 5 re-re-raises to make the 7-8 call a double bet.

The way I've always thought of starting hand is Razz, as compared to 7 card stud is.
3 cards to a 5 - concealed pair 10-A
3 cards to a 7 - split pair 10-A
3 cards to a 9 - split pair 6-9
2 cards under 5, 1 concealed junker - Concealed pair 2-7. big door card
2 cards under 9, 1 concealed paint - split pairs 2-7, smaller unrealted kicker

Anything that doesn't fall into this catogory is worth throwing away. The main problem I have now is that I'm trying to find 5-10 more hands an hour to play.

In the Hawthorne/Brunson section on lowball in Super/System, (which is amazing, and a greatly underrated chapter in my opinion, since the content really applies to all poker games), Hawthorne stresses that lowball is all about the long hall. about making small victory on top of small victory, and grinding out a nice income for yourself over many, many, many hours.

If you sitting at a 5/10 Razz table, being up $5 at the end of an hour is very good for razz. (at the same limit I would personally expect to be up about $20 in 7 card stud)

I'm going to post another toic on another idea about playing starting hands.
thanks for the reply

I agree that razz is all about the long haul. Over the short run variance can kill you in a game like razz, because a good player will push when he has a slight advantage (a 98 against a 65 draw or something like that)

In the example you gave I would raise, though I dont expect the other player to 3 bet, and I expect the other two would call anyway. A situation where I would not raise if say I have (34)7 and someone completes with an 8 showing and someone else calls and an ace showing, or something like that. If I knew that I was very far ahead preflop then I would be raising, but pushing your tiny advantages on 3rd is not a very good play, especially since, in the example you gave, the other players arent going to fold and you will be forced to draw against 3 other players. Assuming they all have at least moderatly good hands, if they outdraw you on 4th and you brick you're going to be in trouble no matter what you started with.

example:

first raiser: (45)6 4th street: J

second caller: (a5)7 4th street: 9

third caller: (24)8 4th street: A

you: (a2)3 4th street: T

you now wasted an extra bet preflop, and are now behind and chasing two players

Depends on the game. In higher limits where I know the 5 would re-raise I definitely raise. In low limits, where people tend to be loose/passive, I flat call after two callers and hope to get a good fourth. Against these players I have no problem folding 4th if two of them catch good and I don't.

by mentioning the words "pre-flop" the OP has instantly lost all credibility....

lol