PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with [9s], [Ts].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16 SB) [2s], [5s], [5h] (8 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) [5d] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds.

When he leads the turn, I'm pretty sure it's 2 big overs or a PP. I'm crushed by any pair he'd be holding, but I think my flush draw is good often enough to call getting 11.5:1 plus implied. Right?

River: (14.50 BB) [6s] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

i think i would have raised the river but I don't have any experience in micro land.

Raise the flop. That would increase your chances of hitting a T/9 and winning.

I don't know about the turn. With 4 opponents, you have to think there's a good chance someone has a FH. I probably fold the turn.

River is good. Don't raise here.

Beautiful. I think your goin for overcalls. Am I right or wrong?

I think your showin off and like it. 8)

Everything but the river call is good.

why? should he raise, get the CO to fold and then possibly get reraised when he will now know he is beat?

haven't read replies, but perfectly played.

aseem

this ran through my mind, but i don't think a 10 or 9 on the turn gives us the best hand often *enough* to sacrifice the gained equity of getting sooo many calls behind us.


big mistake.

if you call drawing dead, you lose 1 BB.

if you fold drawing live, you sacrifice more than 2 BB worth of share in pot.

don't fold good draws in big pots even when you might be drawing dead, basic lesson, especially in micro.

aseem

you kidding?

this is a textbook go-for-overcalls example.

aseem

so calling to hit your flush with trips on the board is good? I fold the turn usually

if the pot is smaller, yeah.

in a big pot, folding when you're wrong (you're actually drawing live) costs you a fraction of the pot that is represented by how often you hit. since the pot is big, that fraction is usually bigger than paying just one more bet to call even when you're drawing dead.

make sense?

this pot is f-ing big that it's worth it to call.

aseem

I understand what you're saying, but I think it does. Remember, we don't have to turn a T/9. What if the turn brings a J, and the river a 9? We then lose to someone holding Jx who may have folded to a raise. The pot is big, I want to do everything to increase my winning chances.



Ok.
This makes sense, especially in micro.

Thanks for the advice. I like to raise a flop like this with overs, but 9T is pretty weak for overs so I'm playing this for the big draw. My real concern was, is the flush draw good enough to call the turn with. I felt it was at the time, but after losing to sb's pocket 7 boat, I was sort of second guessing the call.

WOW . This must be one of those old textbooks from the 1960s like the ones at my old highschool because they couldn't afford better ones.

Raising here is terrible, I don't even think you can make an arguement for it.

Why are u quoting me and saying raising here is terrible...? It implies that I'm in favor of raising... And I dont remember those words coming out of my mouth (or my hands).

so you're saying we should fold?

but you never said the turn call was bad.

so... you call the turn drawing to a flush, then fold when it hits even though it doesn't make a boat any more likely.

interesting...?

either fold turn, or call turn and call river when you hit as well.

aseem

either fold turn, or call turn and call river when you hit as well.

Yup. But I say fold the turn.

On the turn your action comes when there could be three MORE callers. I think the chance that none of the four villains have a 2, 5, pp, or higher flush draw is almost nil. Even in that big a pot.

Seems like no one cares about Hitting the 9 or 10 after the turn. Just thought I would mention that.

yes.

if you believe your 10 or 9 outs are live, you should be raising the flop too.

if you're not raising the flop, i don't like raising the turn, but you should of course continue.

aseem

A very good argument can be made for folding that turn. It's not an incredibly incorrect play to call or fold on the turn. But assuming u call on the turn there's no reason to call on the river after u had 2 overcalls on the turn. Someone has a pair... meaning ur flush is sh1t.

Also, aseem, ur idea of getting overcalls on the river for more value is absolutely absurd. First, ur hoping the bettor just has ak. So u can beat him. Next, anyone that overcalls has u beat. So, ur actually hoping they all fold their pair behind u. That was definitely one of the worst comments I've read from a supposedly "good" strat poster on this forums. Atleast u have some good posts other times... maybe that offsets the bad.

Who in the Hell supposes I am good? cause I am not Egarim. I am now going to wallk over to my corner curl up into a lil ball and cry.

Maybe your talking to aseem. Ppl like and respect aseem. There is no way I have made good post. :?

this logic usually isn't sound.

plenty of low limit, much less *micro*, players will call to showdown ace-high, king-high, and sometimes queen-high or jack-high.


i disagree.

conversely, for a raise to be correct, you'd have to assume that:

a) the bettor *still* has AK
the people behind you have pairs
c) the people behind you are tight and will *fold* those pairs to two cold

going for an overcall requires:

a) the bettor *might* have AK but he *might* have a boat... you are unsure
the people behind you might (usually will in micro* call with worse hands than flushes, but fold those same hands to two cold

i don't see how you can argue this.

going for overcalls is a thing you do when you are unsure whether you beat the bettor or not and when you can get worse hands to call one whereas they would probably fold to two.

aseem

That was what I was thinking. Not to mention his concern about a pocket pair, which means he gets reraised if he raises in addition to having about zero chance of getting a caller past him.

Ray

Avsfan, i was not talking to u ... but feel free to be flattered and pretend I was :wink: .

Anyways, Aseem, I still disagree. Players who make that play do it because they're playing micro limit and will continue to do so... for a long time.