Here's the scenario:

0.50/1.00 limit

2 folds, 2 calls, poster checks, button calls, SB calls, I raise with KK, all call

Flop J 3 9

SB checks, I bet, all but button and SB call - 15 SB

Turn J 3 9 A

I check, next checks, next bets, button calls, I fold

Is this the correct fold? The A comes on the turn, there's three people behind me, and one player bets. Now he has an aggression factor of 3.00, but he's only played two hands so the numbers might be off. I mean, on one hand there's 9 BB in there, but on the other hand there's already two people that aren't bothered by the A, and there's one to act behind me who might be going for a c/r on the turn. Is this a spot where I should call down, or should I figure that one of my three opponents has the A?

Results:

The turn bettor only had KJ, the button called him down and lost, and the guy between me and the turn bettor folded to the river bet. So it looks like there was a flush draw and two jacks in their hands.

How about this one:

I have KK one off the button

5 callers, I raise, button folds, SB calls, BB calls, 5 more call

Flop 874 rainbow

Checks to guy before me, he bets, I raise, two cold callers, flop bettor raises - do I call this down, or do I just call trying to catch a K and fold UI on the turn? There are ~15 BB in there on the turn, by the way.

Results:
Needless to say, I made the wrong choice when I called this one down, because he had the 88. After misplaying the earlier KK hand, I didn't want to fold another big winner.

First hand, I probably try to check/raise the flop. Betting doesn't protect my hand, so I either want to suck the villains in for an extra bet if an early position limper bets, or I hope a bet comes from the Button so I can raise to push out some weak draws.

Then I lead the turn, and with so many villains, and only 2 outs, I'll probably fold to a raise.

Second hand, pot is too big to fold with an overpair. I call down.

Hand 1:

You should note what suit your kings are. This could mean that if you hit a set, your opponents can't hit a flush.

That being said - lead that turn. Check/folding is way too weak. You can't assume one of your opponents has an ace.


Hand 2:

Just call the flop. A raise isn't going to drive anyone out. Which leads me to my next point - raise the turn!

You want to drive people out. You can't fold here because:
a) you could be ahead
you could be behind to 2 pair, in which case you have 8 outs
c) you could be behind to a set, in which case you have 2 outs, and are still getting close to the right odds to call anyway.
d) you're drawing dead to a straight

b is most likely, followed by a, followed by c, followed by d.

Yeah I guess the c/r flop line was good, but I was trying to c/r the turn in the event of a non-threatening card - I figured the pot was so big that c/r flop wouldn't have done much anyway. So if I bet the flop but check the turn I might be able to get in a c/r there when the bets double. If I c/r the flop though, I think I decrease my chances of check-raising the turn. I was going to lead on the turn on any Q or T and fold to a raise, and go for the c/r on any K or non-broadway. The A really killed me though; I figured that card or a J beat me almost 100% of the time.

Hand 1: lead the turn

Hand 2: I cap the flop and call down if he stays aggressive, although I'm not sure about this one. Screech, I don't really follow your response on this one. Aren't you capping the flop not just to drive out shitty aces but for value? And once the flop is capped you can slow down to aggression on the turn because it would be clear you're in trouble?

Hand 1, I lead the flop as you did, but I lead the turn and almost certainly fold to a raise. If called, I check the river and either call or fold, depending on the river card and the action.

Hand 2, I think I play it similarly, except I cap the flop. Remember that whether a decision is right or wrong has very little to do with what your opponents actually held, but rather what they could have held given whatever information you have.

On hand 2, I already felt like I was in trouble when he three-bet the flop. Why put in four on the flop when I feel like the right play is calling down, when I could put in three on the flop and call down and save half a big bet? To maybe clean up the aces, which is only a three-out draw anyway; I don't think I lose much keeping them around, especially when the three-bet already makes me think I'm behind.

However yeah I agree hand one was completely donked up. Whoops.

Yeah, you could cap the flop. I'm more interested in driving out the weak draws on the turn. If we don'tcap the flop, and raise the turn, we will face the cold-callers with 8.5:1 odds, which is not enough to call if they have a gutshot. They may also fold something like bottom pair, which is good for us.

If cap it, we face them with 9.5:1 odds on the turn. They can profitably call with a gutshot getting these odds (implied odds). Also, this assumes that your cap won't slow down the guy who 3-bet. More likely than not, the turn will go check-you bet-call-call-call.

Also, by waiting for the turn, we get to see if an ace, 5, 6, 7, or 8 falls, and can then play our hand accordingly (slower...).

So yes, the flop cap would be for value (you'll win this hand more than 25% of the time), but by capping the flop, you decrease your overall winning chances (you will get outdrawn more because the pot is larger, and you won't be able to offer worse odds to the field). If you call the 3-bet, and raise the turn, you may miss out on some value on the flop, but you increase your overall chances of winning, by increasing the chance that you knock out some players behind you. Also, if a scare card comes, you save some bets you would have otherwise lost.

Without reading other replies;

Hand 1 - Bet out on the turn and re-evaluate if raised. The villains don't necessarily have an A in their hand here. Betting helps us get info on the villains. If raised, I probably call with the pot so big, but am likely folding the river unimproved, especially if more than one villain shows an interest in sticking around.

Hand 2 - We're probably beaten by a set here, but I would tend to call down. Villain could have a set, but may also have an overpair or even as little as top pair or an OESD. Other players are likely drawing as well.

Thanks. Great explanation...