Men the Hellmuth
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 2:40 PM
OK guys im back for another go...... ill try to be a bit better with the details then the last time i wrote one of these up.....
Im playing in a 60 dollar Live Tournament 2 nights ago...... 17 People Started the Tournament.... Starting chips were 1500..... only paying top 3 finishers.......
I am in the small blind and am chip leader of this tourney as of now, sitting behind about 4000 in chips..... The blinds as of right now are 75 and 150... there are only 12 people left.... 6 on my table and 6 on the other table......
everyone folds around to the button who limps in for 150.....
i look down and see Pocket Jacks in the small blind .....
The BB has around 700 in chips left.....
the button player is 2nd in chips with about 3000 in chips....
I decide to raise and make it 600 to go ( so i am telling the BB that i am strong and obviously commited to his all in if he decides to go for it.... also telling the Button limper that i am strong because im commiting myself to call the BB's all in )
The BB thinks about it for some time and folds his hand..... the action is back on the button limper and he anounces ALL IN .......... tell me what you think and what you would do.... ill be back later to tell you what happened
Swift_Psycho
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 2:49 PM
Any read on the button?
Normally I'm calling though.
WonderfulSplash
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 2:49 PM
Without reads its kind of hard to know what to do against a limp-reraise. It also depends on the blind stucture (how fast were they moving). If this was like many casinos with very quick blinds I would be more inclined to call, but either way I think its pretty close.
gobears
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 2:56 PM
My initial thought is that the button limped with a monster. You still have 3,400 chips if you fold.
Without a read on the button that he would be willing to play a wider range of holdings in this manner (e.g. he will push on a bluff, he likes to tangle with the blinds with marginal cards, he's been very aggressive) - I fold the jacks.
Men the Hellmuth
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 3:09 PM
Being that i usually forget to mention what kind of player he is i guess i should mention it....... i would most likely classify his tournament play as tight aggressive..... but on a side note.... the player tends to fear playing pots againist me..... so might be a little more willing to gamble it up..... im going to play some... but ill either be on tomm or late tonight for some more opinions and ill let you know how the situation unfolded.... ( No Pun intended lol )
copernicus
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 3:12 PM
ditto on it being nice to have some kind of read on the button, but, lets say he just moved there to balance the tables.
The first thing is the size of your raise...it seems a little high to me. Your already down to 3 handed, and 600 doesnt send any more message to the BB than, say 300..because either way hes pot committed if he calls. It also doesnt say anything more to the BB than a smaller raise does, because any raise still says that youre willing to play the hand out of position.
What a bet that size does do is make the pot very tempting for a steal attempt. You really have no idea how strong the button is. With only 2 players left he could be slow playing the big pairs, he could be on a smaller pair thinking youre raise was excessive and a possible steal attempt, or he could be on a total steal.
Given the wide range of hands you are probably ahead, but maybe only a coin flip ahead. Since Im on a guess, and I dont like guessing without any clues, I fold these, and expect that he was slowplaying big pairs. Since you know what he had I assume y0u called, because if he showed his hand after a fold it was a poor decision, unless he thought he was setting you up for some future play.
zimmer4141
Friday, September 9th, 2005, 3:36 PM
I am taking into account his likely perception of you as well. He probably sees big stack and assumes bully. Therefore, he gives you less respect for your raise. I call here, as it seems this structure moves very quickly, as you are chipleader with only about 27BB. I think this is a good spot, as there are 3 hands that dominate you. If you win this hand, you have a dominating chipstack, and can probably bully everyone around, and you can wait for better spots because the rising blinds don't affect you as much.
Men the Hellmuth
Monday, September 12th, 2005, 1:53 PM
Sorry guys, ive been away, playing some poker.... anyway.... i decided to take my time with this problem.... i was talking a little bit to myself but also loud enough so my opponent could here me talk just in case he gave something away with his body language..... i told him he wouldnt limp in with Kings or Queens because of being nervous of some blind having a weak ace and out flopping him....
so then i proceded to knock out some other hands... i knew he would raise with any big Ace ( AK, AQ, AJ ) on the button.. so i eliminated those hands...
i then also ruled out the possibilities that he had jacks ( because thats what i had ) and i thought he would just smooth call with 10's - 7's because he wouldnt want to mess with the chip leader unless he flopped a huge hand.....
so finally i thought the only hand he could have to make that move on me would be Aces...... so after thinking about if for about 2 mins, i folded my Jacks face up...and told him his aces were good....
He then told me he almost fainted when i told him exactly what i was thinking ( especially with the kings and queens thing ) ... and then he flipped up his hand.... which of course were the Pocket Aces.......
wish i had a happy ending to this story but i dont.... i ended up finishing on the bubble ( 4th place ) pretty card dead at the end of thr tourney.... ohh well.... thanks for listening...
copernicus
Monday, September 12th, 2005, 2:47 PM
QUOTE (Men the Hellmuth)
Sorry guys, ive been away, playing some poker.... anyway.... i decided to take my time with this problem.... i was talking a little bit to myself but also loud enough so my opponent could here me talk just in case he gave something away with his body language..... i told him he wouldnt limp in with Kings or Queens because of being nervous of some blind having a weak ace and out flopping him....
so then i proceded to knock out some other hands... i knew he would raise with any big Ace ( AK, AQ, AJ ) on the button.. so i eliminated those hands...
i then also ruled out the possibilities that he had jacks ( because thats what i had ) and i thought he would just smooth call with 10's - 7's because he wouldnt want to mess with the chip leader unless he flopped a huge hand.....
so finally i thought the only hand he could have to make that move on me would be Aces...... so after thinking about if for about 2 mins, i folded my Jacks face up...and told him his aces were good....
He then told me he almost fainted when i told him exactly what i was thinking ( especially with the kings and queens thing ) ... and then he flipped up his hand.... which of course were the Pocket Aces.......
wish i had a happy ending to this story but i dont.... i ended up finishing on the bubble ( 4th place ) pretty card dead at the end of thr tourney.... ohh well.... thanks for listening...
I dont see you eliminating Ks and Qs here, especially Ks, so I'll take my answer as being good :-) .
I still think it was a terrible move for him to show the As though. If I were him I would want you thinking about that hand the rest of the tourney, and wondering whether he stole one from you. If another big pair comes up soon, especially, you have to be more prone to call if you think he's trying to bully the table.
macphec
Tuesday, September 13th, 2005, 8:51 AM
QUOTE
I still think it was a terrible move for him to show the As though. If I were him I would want you thinking about that hand the rest of the tourney, and wondering whether he stole one from you. If another big pair comes up soon, especially, you have to be more prone to call if you think he's trying to bully the table.
Exactly. All he accomplished by showing his AA was giving you a lot of confidence for the rest of teh tourney.
Men the Hellmuth
Tuesday, September 13th, 2005, 2:45 PM
QUOTE (macphec)
QUOTE
I still think it was a terrible move for him to show the As though. If I were him I would want you thinking about that hand the rest of the tourney, and wondering whether he stole one from you. If another big pair comes up soon, especially, you have to be more prone to call if you think he's trying to bully the table.
Exactly. All he accomplished by showing his AA was giving you a lot of confidence for the rest of teh tourney.
Even if he didnt show me the aces and mucked.... i would of thought i made the right lay down..... its about putting a thought in your head and keep playing with confidence.... i still had a lot of chips and i would just pick up more blinds with some steals and make up for that little blip on the screen.... i try not to dwell on something i cant change....
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