crazyIvan
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 5:57 PM
$5 SNG, 5 handed. Chip leader has about 4400 (most aggressive player at the table, everyone else is a rock), 2nd 3800, 3rd 2800, 4th 2500, and I have 2200.
Blinds are 100/200.
Chip leader is SB and has defended his blinds virtually every hand.
I'm on the button with 77.
First 2 players fold.
I raise to 400 (small raise, but frankly was afraid to put half my chips or more in the pot given the play of the blinds to that point).
SB calls, BB folds. Pot has 1000 chips.
Flop is 532 rainbow. BB bets 200. After thinking about this for as much time as I have, I go all in. My thinking here (thinking always gets me into trouble), is that I want to raise him, and given that I have less chips than are in the pot, there's no point in calling or making a small raise.
My issues are this:
1) should i have been more bold in my preflop raise?
2) was I wrong to push all in after the flop with the overpair?
copernicus
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:05 PM
you played it fine imo
gobears
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:15 PM
Your M is barely above 7 - the only way to play mid pocket pairs in that situation is to go all-in pre-flop. In Harrington on Holdem Vol. 2, he runs thru a calculation which shows that you and your opponent need to have about 24x the BB in order for you to play mid pocket pairs as that is the inflection point where the implied odds make it worth your while. You're basically trying to hit a set with mid pocket pairs.
Since you don't have 24x the BB - pushing becomes the only option if you want to play your 7's. In this case, it's folded to you, so it's a great time to push as you're first in.
In your particular situation, that's a great flop for you. All-in post flop.
gobears
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:16 PM
QUOTE (copernicus)
you played it fine imo
You wouldn't push there pre-flop? Just curious as to why not.
crazyIvan
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:40 PM
I gave some thought to going all in, but, very simply, chickened out! No other explanation. Thought it was probably the right move, just couldn't pull the trigger on it. Given the SB's hand, I think he would have called anyway (see below).
Since i'm a newbie, and haven't read lots of books, what is "M"? Seen it referenced a lot, but don't know what that is.
Not that it really matters to the discussion, but SB turned over A9os, turn and river blanked, I doubled up, and "coasted" to 2nd. Got no cards the rest of the game, and the eventual winner was the biggest rock at the table and he consistently got cards (I called or raised his bets when I hit middle pair or better, but he had monsters for hu!) and took me out easily!
gobears
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:47 PM
QUOTE (crazyIvan)
Since i'm a newbie, and haven't read lots of books, what is "M"? Seen it referenced a lot, but don't know what that is.
M is your stack divided by the starting pot.
Swift_Psycho
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 6:52 PM
I like pushing pre-flop as well.
Post-flop, I feel this is a relatively easy push.
copernicus
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 7:13 PM
QUOTE (gobears)
QUOTE (copernicus)
you played it fine imo
You wouldn't push there pre-flop? Just curious as to why not.
While his M is getting on the low side, since this is a SnG the chip distribution is fairly flat. He isnt that far behind 4th and 3rd, and he is even "in contact" with the chip leader. (Since Harrington is using Magriels "M", I like to use another backgammon term..in contact..meaning that if you double through vs the chip leader youre ahead of him).
So his situaton isnt quite as dire as his smallish M would indicate. Since hes got the big stack in the SB behind him first in vigorish is also lessened a bit...the big stack can afford to call with a strong hand, without it being a monster, and that means a lot of hands that youre behind or on a coin flip.
I dont think pushing is horrible, especially if all you care about is first place, but I also dont think its a typical orange zone situation where you are way behind, and a push is mandatory. Move the M down to the red zone and Im pushing of course.
kilgoretrout
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 7:13 PM
QUOTE (crazyIvan)
I gave some thought to going all in, but, very simply, chickened out!
I just wanted to address this one part of your post about considering the all in move, and chickening out. One of the most important skills in poker is having the courage to make the play you think is right. This is something that you will learn with experience, but it is also something you need to focus on as a new player. In this hand, going all in is the right play, as gobears has pointed out. You even though of making that play at the time, but didn't pull the trigger because you were scared of losing. If i was playing this hand, I would be more scared of not going all in, and losing because I let someone in cheap!
The next time you play, try to go with the play your gut tells you is right. After the game, if you have any doubts about your play, just come here and post the hand, the people here will gladly tell you if you made a mistake.
Another thing, It's a really good sign that you posted this hand where you are questioning your own play, even though you won the hand. That's a good indication that you have the attitude & maturity to become a good player.
Good luck at the tables.
crazyIvan
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 8:38 PM
[quote="kilgoretroutAnother thing, It's a really good sign that you posted this hand where you are questioning your own play, even though you won the hand. That's a good indication that you have the attitude & maturity to become a good player.
Good luck at the tables.[/quote]
Thank you. I have good math skills (I write software for a living, about 20+ years at it), played cards as a kid, but online Texas Holdem isnt the same as i played as a kid (mostly stud and draw). I think I understand the game pretty well, just need improvement, and this forum is a great place to get advice, and see how other people would play hands. I do play for enjoyment as opposed to paying my rent, but that doesn't mean I don't want to get better.
I have had a pretty good night tonight, and in fact some of the hands I've posted previously came up again, and I successfully relied on the advice I got here and it worked well.
Thanks to all the helpful people. I have lurked on this forum for quite some time, and frankly, with some of the posts (yes, in general mostly), I was a little tenative to post here. You guys helping me out proves that this forum is a quality place to get advice and I appreciate it greatly!
Swift_Psycho
Thursday, September 8th, 2005, 8:52 PM
QUOTE (crazyIvan)
Thanks to all the helpful people. I have lurked on this forum for quite some time, and frankly, with some of the posts (yes, in general mostly), I was a little tenative to post here. You guys helping me out proves that this forum is a quality place to get advice and I appreciate it greatly!
Indeed, definitely stay in these strategy forums for top notch advice. A lot of the guys here really do know their stuff and do their best to help you out. And me...I try.
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