B&M mt tourney ($120+30) freeze out. 4000 starting chips, 25/50 starting blinds, double every 30 mins. Approx. 240 entries - top 24 in the money.

Sitting with 3900, with blinds at 200/400 and approximately 100 players left. Just got moved to a new table so no reads at all. Second hand, picked up JJ two seats before the button. Folded around to me, and I raised to 1200. Folded to button, who calls (has approx. 5000 left), SB folds, BB goes all in for 6500. What's the play? I feel like I know the answer and made the right play since my goal was to make the final three, not just squeak into the money, but just looking for other perspectives.

It sounds like you went all in and got beat from your last sentence, and given your objective, thats the right play at that point, but it shouldnt have gotten to that point.

With an M of 6.5 youre going to commit to the hand anyway and your 1200 bet doesnt serve much purpose (unless youre trying to induce a raise, which isnt a high probability play since youre new at the table).

I would have pushed instead of the 1200 bet.

Yup, with your M, this is push or fold.
You're first in, easy push.

Yeah, you should push pf here. You have less than 10xBB, so that is really autopush territory.

I am pushing in that spot. I do that kind of crap all of the time with A-K, A-Q, and even A-J if I am running good and feeling frisky inthe big blind- if he happens to actually have a hand it's still worth a push at this point in the tourney.

Last tourney win I had I reraise big with A-J twice out of the BB- both times the raiser folded A-Q face up, and they were substantial pots. I of course did not show- who wants to advertise that? Not me- I like to keep em guessing.

This much later in the tourney and you have 100 less in chips than you started with, so I am guessing you are hurting pretty bad in chips.

I would push with 10-10 and up or AK, AQ and let the chips fall where they may.

i don't mind your raise. a push may drive out lower pocket pairs than you (that you want calling) and if they happen to have you beat with a higher pair, theyre gonna call all in anyway. the only question comes from if they will fold AQ if you push all in, and i'd say the average player would call it anyway, especially since you are short stacked.

The only hand where pushing might be better than this raise is something like KQ suited, where they'd proli have to fold to an all in raise, but even so, even if they were to call your all in, you don't mind racing here with so few chips.

The other problem with raising is that it allows multiple other hands to see a flop, but its not like your raise was tiny, and you are still definitely getting the best equity, or they have you beat anyway and were gonna call your all in.

The final factor as to why i prefer the raise to the all in is that hands like 88, 99, 1010, would be more inclined to put you all in and force you to a "tough" decision, even though you are committed anyway. if you just move all in, those hands might fold, and that would be bad.

Also, it's a better play if you rely on your postflop skills, because you might be able to save yourself if a really scary flop comes. The counter-argument is that you might get outplayed in these spots, but if you get outplayed, you suck at poker and deserve to lose.

But i see both arguments.

I've been arguing the same thing in other threads with an M around 10, but you do a better job of it here, thanks.

With an M at 6.5, though, I pushing is a lot more attractive then at 10. In fact I think 6.5 is close to the "inflection point" where pushing becomes mandatory.

With the 1200 raise if you get a call there is 3000 in the pot and you have 2700 left, meaning the least odds y0u can restrict a caller to post flop is 2.1/1. That means he will have the right odds I(or very close to the right odds) to call with a pair made on the flop, a flush draw, a pocket pair with a gutshot straight draw. If he doesnt hit anything and an A or K flops its an autofold for him. That doesnt leave a lot of room to outplay him.

That's the difference between a raise and push if safe flop vs. pushing preflop. At this point on the tourney or with the M, you gotta push this hand.

You raised 1200, so now 1800 in the pot,you have 2700 left, if you call his all-in you ccould have 9000 in chips with your 2700 call. That's better than 3 to 1.

Now say he just calls your raise, you are going to push post flop probably unless and Ace hits, but say one does and depending on his play you now fold. That leaves you 2700, blinds are 200/400, not sure when they go up next, what better/comparable hands are you going to get to make a move in this tourney?

AA,KK,QQ,AKs,AQs,AK,AQ - that's it, you may get a better hand or maybe not, but more than likely you won't get a better situation than heads up.

we agree in this situation...now where do you think the cutoff is in terms of M to where you would take a look at the flop and then decide?

I think its somewhere between 6.5 and 10, and it being pretty clear at 10 that you want to play it for more than blinds.

I agree somewhere in there, for me it really depends on the situation if I am somewhere in the ballpark.

Once you start getting low in chips you got to make a move, that is if you are wanting to make a high cash or win it. If your goal is to make the money then I guess you could try and wait it out.

I used to bubble a lot in tourneys, or make the final table a lot, but go out 8-10th. Now I have started pushing more in these situations, although I don't make the money as often, although still a lot, I make higher cashes.

I play a daily live tourney and have been trying several different things and am working on some of the things in Harrington's vol. 2.