Got bored, so decided to play a few PLO8 games at lunch today (after the stud 8 debacle). Is there an O8 converter???

PokerStars Game #2458193585: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/08/30 - 13:14:36 (ET)
Table 'Galt' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: JareemWeaver ($80.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Brookster ($89.40 in chips)
Seat 4: crimson12 ($58.80 in chips)
Seat 5: hickster711 ($31.55 in chips)
Seat 6: 6kevin6 ($31.10 in chips)
Seat 7: Rocketwad ($20.20 in chips)
Seat 8: Tadao ($12.80 in chips)
Seat 9: mdgmdg ($64.20 in chips)
6kevin6: posts small blind $0.25
Rocketwad: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rocketwad [Jd 2s 9c Ad]
Tadao: folds
mdgmdg: calls $0.50
JareemWeaver: calls $0.50
Brookster: folds
crimson12: calls $0.50
hickster711: calls $0.50
6kevin6: calls $0.25
Rocketwad: checks

Not a bad hand for the BB. Take the free flop.

*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Td]
6kevin6: checks
Rocketwad: bets $1
mdgmdg: raises $4.85 to $5.85
JareemWeaver: folds
crimson12: folds
hickster711: folds
6kevin6: folds
Rocketwad: raises $13.85 to $19.70 and is all-in
mdgmdg: calls $13.85

I've got the current nut-low, nut-flush draw, AND open-ended straight draw. I bet out and it gets potted behind me. This hand has the same premise as a hand in another thread where I indicated I couldnt see me folding to any turn card, so why not put all the money in right here. Sooooo, I re-potted it. Is this a mistake? Was my leading out for a small bet a mistake?
*** TURN *** [3d 8c Td] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [3d 8c Td Ah] [Kh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Rocketwad: shows [Jd 2s 9c Ad] (HI: a pair of Aces)
mdgmdg: shows [Tc 8d 8h 7h] (HI: three of a kind, Eights)
mdgmdg collected $40.30 from pot
No low hand qualified

As you can see, I missed on the turn and river to ALL of my draws.

Where did I go wrong (if I even did)? :?

You have a hand weaker than what you might have thought of, that's why. Althought you were a favorite on the flop, but that's only a SLIGHT favorite, not a huge favorite. You don't want to put all your money in when all you have are drawings, the point is you didn't have a made hand. That's not what PLO8 is about. You only want to put all your money in when, say you've made the top set with nut flush redraw, nut low draw... or you've made your nut low with good counterfeit protection then a good shot at the high, then you want to be ramming and jamming the pot. Example are like the board was 3:diamond: 4:club: 9 and you were holding A 2 99, or the board was 2 4 5 and you were holding A 3:spade: 6 X. See in those cases you have a MADE hand plus strong redraws, and the beauty of it is, it's very likely that you will get actions with those boards, and you are 3/4ing or may even be scooping the whole pot. PLO8 is a game of waiting for the double nuts, patiently. This game requires a lot of discipline. You need to resist all the tempations.

Are you suggesting that I fold this flop? I figured Smash would, but you too? Look at my hand man, I have to be a big favorite against many hands that could be out there, and a slight favorite against hands like the one this particular fellow (I think he is a moron)... :?

No, I will check call the flop then check fold the turn.

I think he is a moron

Your goal is to make money at the table. You don't care if he's a moron or not. YOU DON'T WANT TO GET REVENGE TO ANYONE. Don't let your emotion guard your play. That was one of my leaks before, I had it fixed.

I wasn't out to get revenge against him after the fact (although he raised my blinds every hand after that when I rebought), but only considered him a moron based on him making that call against me. When I look at his hand, I MAY have potted it like he did, but once it was repotted again, folded and moved on. I wouldn't even have played it in the first place frmo early position like he did...moron...lol
8)

I was going to go really long winded on this reply but I was giving myself a headache, to sum up:
24 outs for half the pot, slight favorite.
11.5 outs to scoop (1.5 for a non diamond queen which is not the nuts), 4-1 against.

I call the flop. Turn I check and call anything other then a pot sized bet with the right odds for it (pot sized I fold with the wrong odds, drawing at half the pot, and plan on outplaying him in the long run).

Do you not think that the possibility of getting my opponent to fold on the re-raise after the flop should be considered? By just calling on the flop and waiting for the turn card, I have given up that possibility in my mind, PLUS I would be putting myself to a tough decision as the turn card ended up hindering my hand but possibly helping my opponents. Based on him having a set of 8's ONLY (I didn't know at the time obviously), he must have considered folding (or he is even worse than I have given him credit for)... :?

I found a calculator, and this is what it gives me:

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing 8c Td 3d
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2s 9c Ad Jd 345 348 472 0 495 0 0 0.573
Tc 8d 8h 7h 226 472 348 0 9 120 0 0.427

57% to 43% isnt really a coin flip, it is actualyl a fairly large margin. Seems like the right decision to me. 8)

I would have played it exactly like you, expecially in view of the stack sizes.

Don't know if you should feel better or worse about that :-)

aw crap, I guess I was wrong (again)...lol

glad to see I wasn't the only one... 8)

You put his hand in, I was going without any information, although rereading without the headache, the queens were all live for you so that's another 1.5 outs (29% to scoop blind, meaning your oppent could still have a low). I belive the descepency is with the low cards since I gave him more credit on the low then his actual holdings. If you knew that he was drawing near dead for the low then I think you are fine here, but I don't like making that leap. As for him folding, at the point he makes a pot sized raise, he's put you on a draw and want's to make you pay for it, no I don't think he will fold to a reraise. He is only in bad shape (he thinks) to 1 hand, the set of 10s.

And there is always a chance he misread the hand and thinks he has a full house. But in any event, if you think he will fold around 1/4 of the time here you are fine, you certainly had more of a read on him then I did. Mainly you are a favorite to win at least half, no doubt about that, but I'm more concerned about scooping then breaking even.

Looking at it from the villain's point of view - When there is a low draw possible, and you only have middle set, are you going to risk almost your entire stack hoping your middle set holds up for most likely half the pot? I know I woulnd't (hence the moron name-calling I gave him). :?

Unless he has an ace 2 as well, I have to figure I am in good shape for at least half, if not the scoop. 8)