SB is a maniac. 96/50/1.92 over 46 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: screech is UTG with [Ks], [Ad].
screech raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) [3h], [9d], [7h] (4 players)
SB bets, screech calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) [2c] (3 players)
SB bets, screech calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (16 BB) [Kc] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

Should I have gone for the overcall on the river?
How's the rest?

I don't like flop cap. But, I only cap Aces, K's, Q's and A-K suited. It's a pretty hard and fast rule for me... and only rare exceptions. But I don't think it's a big deal either way. I'd be more comfy with the cap if you had position.

I don't quite get these flop plays. Is raising the flop here really that standard? I mean, everyone is still going to have 10-1, so you aren't protecting your hand from anything at all... or isolate the maniac, and you don't have a hand to protect yet... so your equity edge is marginal at best after this flop.

You are also out of position.... so you aren't buying a free card (not that it really is what you are doing).

Why not just call and hope the turn card helps you. If it does, you can protect your hand better with a raise there.

I dunno though, I could be way off.

I think the river raise is fine.

He has position on the maniac. I don't mind the flop raise in an attempt to isolate...but you'll likely pull at least one caller and you might get 3-bet.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

upon first read og hand:

my gut said Chip Spew on flop. Just call.

Rest is great.
You and Maniac built pot up and you have oods to see the river.
Raise is "of course". Overcall pays 1 bet..same as Maniacs call..and he might raise...and overcall might call still, no?


however..given the big pot now due to the flop...
Given Maniacs stats and the pots size on the turn..how about a turn raise..just in case UTG+2 has a draw. He might fold a weak draw..and u could be in great shape against the sb. Just throwing that out there.


I don't mind the way you played this given the opponent.

I'm assuming you mean the preflop cap here. Normally, I slow down here OOP against a 3-bet. Here, I've got a lot going for me. First, the 3-bet is from a player who is raising 50% of his hands. Secondly, I've got a lot of dead money in the pot with both the UTG calls.

As for the flop raise...
SB is betting here all the time. I want to isolate him, and I'm definetly showing my hand down if I can get it heads up. Also, other players don't always pay attention to the pot odds. Some see a raise, get scared, and release their hand incorrectly.
That being said, I think waiting for the turn to raise is a much better play. The flop is pretty uncoordinated, and I'm not worried too much about it. Also, my opponents may have some understanding of pot odds, and will release their hands much more readily on the turn. By raising the flop, I hand like 88, or A3 may call, and then get the correct odds on the turn to call again.

The turn is pretty standard IMO.

Same with the river. UTG either missed his hand, or he had one the whole way. If he had one the whole way, he's probably going to call anyway in this large pot. I likely just took the lead on SB if I was behind, and he'll probably call the river raise with a wide range of hands.

Anyway, he just called the river raise and I felt confident I had won. Then he flipped over 99. :?
I'd seen him 3-bet the river earlier with 2nd pair...

No comments on the play, but I'll comment on the subject. I'm still steaming from a string of bad beats to a similar maniac... he was about 90/75/5.0. Really. He took some hits early and was down to 10BB and went on a tear and was up 75BB or more over 100 hands. A lot of those BB were mine. I think I won one pot out of 10 or so.

Do these guys ever lose? Every time I see a maniac they are just hammering the table and walking away with lots o' chips.

Feeling your pain,
Jeff

I'm assuming you mean the preflop cap here.

Yup. Like I said though, I don't think it matters too much either way.

Also, other players don't always pay attention to the pot odds. Some see a raise, get scared, and release their hand incorrectly.

Very true. That's why if your hand were any stronger, or just maybe if there were only one other villain + you and the maniac... I'd be more inclined to make this play. The value of A-K decreases big time when it misses the flop. Although the SB probably doesn't have much, there are two others who have decided to stick around in this capped PF pot.

That being said, I think waiting for the turn to raise is a much better play. The flop is pretty uncoordinated, and I'm not worried too much about it. Also, my opponents may have some understanding of pot odds, and will release their hands much more readily on the turn. By raising the flop, I hand like 88, or A3 may call, and then get the correct odds on the turn to call again.

Yup. That would have been my plan. You still do need to hit at least some semblance of a hand here in a multiway pot that was capped PF.

i haven't read replies.

i don't cap it preflop when it's offsuit, but that usually assumes a legitimate three-betting standard against normal players. against a passive player, i can see capping being okay as simply pushing an equity edge.

i don't riase the flop, i just call with the intention of slowing way down if someone behind me raises, and if no one raises, to pop any turn and make the other two now face two big bets cold.

i actually cringed when i saw you raise the flop. sorry.

aseem

Haha, no sweat.

What do you think about waiting until the turn to raise if only UTG+2 calls the flop?
Chance of UTG+2 on a draw + chance of maniac donking it up (more than me) = raise on turn???

it doesn't matter who calls and who folds--if no one behind you raises, you pop any turn.

by the way, the way it played, your river raise was pretty horrendous too. start thinking about your river actions more and why you do what.

no hand better than a pair of kings is folding to two cold right there (i.e. you're not making UTG+2 fold a better hand by raising the river), and no hand worse than a pair of kings is calling two cold right there (i.e. you're not gaining value from worse hands from UTG+2 all that often).

this is as a clear a call (going for an overcall) situation as it gets.

aseem

i wouldn't raise the flop no ones folding for 2 in a pot this big everything else looks fine to me.