.25/.50 Limit Holdem
10 players

Preflop Hero is Button with J J
5 folds, MP raises, CO folds, Hero 3bets, SB folds, BB calls, MP calls

Flop (9.5 sb) A Q 6
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP folds

Turn (6 bb) 4
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

River (8 bb) 8
BB checks, Hero checks

Don't really like it, for a couple of reasons.

1. If he has a monster he's going to re-raise you, and you've just lost a bet.

2. If he has the ace or the queen, chances are he's seeing the showdown. Chances are he has either the ace or the queen. Smells like a Q4, A-6 situation to me.

3. Realistically what is he drawing at if that's what you put him on? An inside straight or backdoor flush?

i dunno, at this level I might give up with two overs to my hand on the turn, but I'm not betting that river for the life of me

I bet the turn here also, he may have a PP. He doesn't lay it down, so your beat.

I play it this way also. No reason to throw away another bb at the river.

If you don't bet the turn, do you call a bet at the river. no. So now you get to see what he has.

Looks good to me.

I've seen many an opponent bet on the river regardless of the card that came when I didn't bet the turn there. It costs the same to bet here as it does to call on the river, so if you are definately going to call ont he river UI, you may as well bet here, no? Or do I have it totally backwards? :? FWIW - I would have checked the turn to the two overcards. 8)

I think you got the order right in that you bet the preflop and the...crap, damn it rocket, you confused me! :-)

I think either way, it would probably play out the same way (lmao...I think?...I don't even play Limit, what am I doing here?...), it's just you get to decide whether you want to pay him off or not at the river (assuming that you feel like you have a decent chance). You bet here: if he raises, you're beat; if he calls, he might just check it to you on the river to let you bet it again, after all, he's been pretty passive; he folds, ?_?...he thinks you have an Ace?... If you check here, he'll probably lead out on the river (the only hands I can imagine that can call a 3-bet preflop are improved by the board having A Q, except KJ, pocket pair, or the guy just loves defending his blind).
The only difference in not betting, IMO, is that he might lead out on the river, and so you get to choose whether or not you wanna pay that bet. It's hard to imagine you're ahead from the call of the 3 bet preflop though, unless he had that pocket pair. So if he leads out, you'd have to do some thinking. Otherwise, if you checked the turn and he still checks the river, you might as well just take a peek at his cards.

The rookie,
NarSARSsist

Twas not my intention to confuse, but to enlighten. Problem is, I am also confused, as are most people, in how to play hands such as these.

My thinking here is that you are taking a great risk in betting on the turn here, as you could get check-raised, and if you do, are you going to fold, or call, or 3-bet it? However, as I indicated previously, by checking the turn, no matter what card comes, many an opponent will bet on the river, as we did not bet on the turn.
What are you going to do if a king comes off on the river and it is bet into us? Or another ace? Or a queen? Or a 6? Or a 4? We may not be beat on the river, but is it worth it to call for one BB to find out? The pot is only 6BB (since we didnt bet the turn), so calling one BB to win 7 looks good, doesn't it?
Does the equation not change when we bet on the turn and then face a bet on the river? Now, it is 8BB in the pot, and it now costs one BB to win 9, which looks real good now, doesn't it? But again, if the river is any of the cards I have indicated, are you still going to call?

I hate jacks :x

Rar! I say we hate our OP, prince

I'm thinking that it might not be so harsh a decision if you get check-raised. The guy is bound to have you drawing to 2 outs if that's the case (or he really managed to read weakness from you because you've been...betting/raising every time it's your turn? If he raises, combined with the fact that he called a 3-bet, he's got you. If he calls, he may very well check it to you again (for the 3rd time, he hasn't taken the lead yet), and you can just look at his hand. So the chances of him betting into you isn't too high.
Besides, I dunno how much the guy might overthink in this case (oh wait...I don't know how Limit players think period...lol). If he does overthink, he could fold a bad Ace (though I doubt it) or a Queen. Even if he does call, he might just check it to you one more time if unimproved.

Could we not look at it this way (usually reserved for river play, but could be applicable here) - what can we beat UI that will call our bet?

I see nothing that applies here IMO, so is our bet to entice a fold?

This is no-foldem holdem (0.25/0.50), so the odds of us getting a better hand to fold are minimal.

So, if it is not a value bet, and not a bluff (trying to get them to fold), I think it can only be one thing - (taken from Chris Ferguson) the worst play in poker!

Damn jacks :x