Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with [Js], [Jh].
3 folds, MP2 calls.
Flop: (10 SB) [7s], [2c], [4c] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (9 BB) [Ac] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.
Final Pot: 10 BB
villain is 23/4/0.77, gotta be 44 or 22... ?
Full Version: jj no good - calling station aggression
Could be many things, all of which beat you. Good spot to lay it down... 8)
QUOTE (justblaze)
gotta be 44 or 22... ?
good fold.
I dunno how to read PT, so I have no idea what that opponent is like. 23/4/0.77? Lol, doesn't really mean much to me 
. Is that age/years playing/win-loss ratio? (Jk, jk). But based on my read of what you said (lol, what you explicitly stated), the guy doesn't normally show much aggression. I'm not a Limit player (okay okay, I admit it, I can't play NL worth anything either ), but what if he has a pair of 9s or 10s? Makes sense to me that he'd think he should cap it with an overpair. I guess it'd make sense that he'd slow down when the Ace hits, but the only hand I can imagine (from his perspective) that the ace would help would be A 7 (top pair top kicker on the flop, maybe even suited to clubs), where the guy would actually cap that flop. But then, why would it be raised preflop? Otherwise, if the opponent (you) has a higher pocket pair, who knows, the action plus the lead out on the turn might scare you. I dunno if what I'm saying is just making the Limit players laugh at me or not (hey, at least you get a laugh :-)), I was just wondering if this is a possibility.
Any comments for this rookie?
NarSARSsist
(Btw, SB called preflop, no raise, that's MP2)
. Is that age/years playing/win-loss ratio? (Jk, jk). But based on my read of what you said (lol, what you explicitly stated), the guy doesn't normally show much aggression. I'm not a Limit player (okay okay, I admit it, I can't play NL worth anything either ), but what if he has a pair of 9s or 10s? Makes sense to me that he'd think he should cap it with an overpair. I guess it'd make sense that he'd slow down when the Ace hits, but the only hand I can imagine (from his perspective) that the ace would help would be A 7 (top pair top kicker on the flop, maybe even suited to clubs), where the guy would actually cap that flop. But then, why would it be raised preflop? Otherwise, if the opponent (you) has a higher pocket pair, who knows, the action plus the lead out on the turn might scare you. I dunno if what I'm saying is just making the Limit players laugh at me or not (hey, at least you get a laugh :-)), I was just wondering if this is a possibility.
Any comments for this rookie?
NarSARSsist
(Btw, SB called preflop, no raise, that's MP2)
Try putting yourself in his shoes, and see what range of hands you would call a 3-bet from out of the SB (knowing you will not have position for the entire hand) pre-flop. From there, look at what your opponent has done on the flop and turn (your opponent being you), and see what hands you can beat.
Then, go back to being you, and ask yourself are your jacks good here???
Then, go back to being you, and ask yourself are your jacks good here???
QUOTE (NarSARSsist)
I dunno how to read PT, so I have no idea what that opponent is like. 23/4/0.77? Lol, doesn't really mean much to me . Is that age/years playing/win-loss ratio? (Jk, jk). But based on my read of what you said (lol, what you explicitly stated), the guy doesn't normally show much aggression. I'm not a Limit player (okay okay, I admit it, I can't play NL worth anything either ), but what if he has a pair of 9s or 10s? Makes sense to me that he'd think he should cap it with an overpair. I guess it'd make sense that he'd slow down when the Ace hits, but the only hand I can imagine (from his perspective) that the ace would help would be A 7 (top pair top kicker on the flop, maybe even suited to clubs), where the guy would actually cap that flop. But then, why would it be raised preflop? Otherwise, if the opponent (you) has a higher pocket pair, who knows, the action plus the lead out on the turn might scare you. I dunno if what I'm saying is just making the Limit players laugh at me or not (hey, at least you get a laugh :-)), I was just wondering if this is a possibility.
Any comments for this rookie?
NarSARSsist
(Btw, SB called preflop, no raise, that's MP2)
. Is that age/years playing/win-loss ratio? (Jk, jk). But based on my read of what you said (lol, what you explicitly stated), the guy doesn't normally show much aggression. I'm not a Limit player (okay okay, I admit it, I can't play NL worth anything either ), but what if he has a pair of 9s or 10s? Makes sense to me that he'd think he should cap it with an overpair. I guess it'd make sense that he'd slow down when the Ace hits, but the only hand I can imagine (from his perspective) that the ace would help would be A 7 (top pair top kicker on the flop, maybe even suited to clubs), where the guy would actually cap that flop. But then, why would it be raised preflop? Otherwise, if the opponent (you) has a higher pocket pair, who knows, the action plus the lead out on the turn might scare you. I dunno if what I'm saying is just making the Limit players laugh at me or not (hey, at least you get a laugh :-)), I was just wondering if this is a possibility.
Any comments for this rookie?
NarSARSsist
(Btw, SB called preflop, no raise, that's MP2)
the last number is his postflop aggression. 0.77 is really low (mine is somewhere in the mid 2s). that means that this guy a) never bluffs and
rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.
QUOTE (justblaze)
the last number is his postflop aggression. 0.77 is really low (mine is somewhere in the mid 2s). that means that this guy a) never bluffs and rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.
rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.Ty for the explanation. I would still wanna put in one more bet though, to see if he'd still raise me or call. Given that he's tight, could he really call a raise and a reraise preflop with Ax? Only with AK or AQ I would imagine. Then, how can he cap with a flop of 7 4 2? I can't imagine he'd have a hand that the Ace helps, unless it's AA, but wow, no capping preflop, that is pretty tight :shock:. So that leaves with only one real hand that beats you, and that's 77 (I think it was mentioned earlier that given the preflop action, even 44 or 22 isn't likely). Given the pot size (10 BB), you'd have to be about 85% sure (you'd call down two more BBs, making the pot 13BB total, if you continue) that he has 77 to lay this down IMO. With also the added 5% that a J can come, you'd have to be about 90% sure that he's got 77 to lay this one down (that's how I usually decide whether to fold or not, I combine pot or implied odds to probability of outs and I have to be at least that confident I'm beat to fold, dunno if that's a bad way of looking at it, it's kinda subjective anyway). Then again, I suck, lol.
QUOTE (NarSARSsist)
QUOTE (justblaze)
the last number is his postflop aggression. 0.77 is really low (mine is somewhere in the mid 2s). that means that this guy a) never bluffs and rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.
rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.Ty for the explanation. I would still wanna put in one more bet though, to see if he'd still raise me. Given that he's tight, could he really call a raise and a reraise preflop with Ax? Only with AK or AQ I would imagine. Then, how can he cap with a flop of 7 4 2? I can't imagine he'd have a hand that the Ace helps, unless it's AA, but wow, no capping preflop, that is pretty tight :shock:. So that leaves with only one real hand that beats you, and that's 77 (I think it was mentioned earlier that given the preflop action, even 44 or 22 isn't likely). Given the pot size (10 BB), you'd have to be about 85% sure (you'd call down two more BBs, making the pot 13BB total, if you continue) that he has 77 to lay this down IMO. With also the added 5% that a J can come, you'd have to be about 90% sure that he's got 77 to lay this one down (that's how I usually decide whether to fold or not, I combine pot or implied odds to probability of outs, dunno if that's a bad way of looking at it, it's kinda subjective anyway).
hes not tight, hes just passive. hes a calling station. calling stations dont bet a pair of 7s with the A on board, and dont bet the flop that hard with just 1 pair. you're overthinking it.
good fold, you're drawing to 2 outs, are you folding the turn UI regardless?
QUOTE (KDawgCometh)
good fold, you're drawing to 2 outs, are you folding the turn UI regardless?
regardless of what? if he checks, ill take a free river, but no the ace isnt what scares me. It scares me that it does not scare villain though.
QUOTE (justblaze)
QUOTE (KDawgCometh)
good fold, you're drawing to 2 outs, are you folding the turn UI regardless?
regardless of what? if he checks, ill take a free river, but no the ace isnt what scares me. It scares me that it does not scare villain though.
well, obviously you are checking behind if he checks, but if the turn is a blank you are folding JJ UI there if he bets right?
QUOTE (KDawgCometh)
QUOTE (justblaze)
QUOTE (KDawgCometh)
good fold, you're drawing to 2 outs, are you folding the turn UI regardless?
regardless of what? if he checks, ill take a free river, but no the ace isnt what scares me. It scares me that it does not scare villain though.
well, obviously you are checking behind if he checks, but if the turn is a blank you are folding JJ UI there if he bets right?
yea, definitely.
QUOTE
well, obviously you are checking behind if he checks, but if the turn is a blank you are folding JJ UI there if he bets right?
I think he's got to. Villian almost always has a set here. The turn card is irrelevant unless it is a jack.
QUOTE (justblaze)
QUOTE (NarSARSsist)
QUOTE (justblaze)
the last number is his postflop aggression. 0.77 is really low (mine is somewhere in the mid 2s). that means that this guy a) never bluffs and rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.
rarely value bets. he rarely bets at all. this much aggression means he AT LEAST has an over pair, but more likely has better than that.Ty for the explanation. I would still wanna put in one more bet though, to see if he'd still raise me. Given that he's tight, could he really call a raise and a reraise preflop with Ax? Only with AK or AQ I would imagine. Then, how can he cap with a flop of 7 4 2? I can't imagine he'd have a hand that the Ace helps, unless it's AA, but wow, no capping preflop, that is pretty tight :shock:. So that leaves with only one real hand that beats you, and that's 77 (I think it was mentioned earlier that given the preflop action, even 44 or 22 isn't likely). Given the pot size (10 BB), you'd have to be about 85% sure (you'd call down two more BBs, making the pot 13BB total, if you continue) that he has 77 to lay this down IMO. With also the added 5% that a J can come, you'd have to be about 90% sure that he's got 77 to lay this one down (that's how I usually decide whether to fold or not, I combine pot or implied odds to probability of outs, dunno if that's a bad way of looking at it, it's kinda subjective anyway).
hes not tight, hes just passive. hes a calling station. calling stations dont bet a pair of 7s with the A on board, and dont bet the flop that hard with just 1 pair. you're overthinking it.
Lol, they tell me to think more and talk less. Looks like I did too much of both... :oops:
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