Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

MP1 ($41.60)
MP2 ($25)
MP3 ($71.28)
CO ($30.45)
Button ($23)
SB ($27.65)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($15.07)
econ_tim ($24.30)

Preflop: econ_tim is UTG+1 with [Jc], [Ac]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, econ_tim calls $0.25, 4 folds, BB calls $0.25, UTG calls $0.25, econ_tim calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2.10) [Jd], [Js], [7c] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, econ_tim checks, Button bets $1, Button folds.

Final Pot: $8.10

Once again, I find myself unable to fold trips to a half-pot sized bet. How do you non-mechanical NL players play this hand?

Slower for one.

I wouldn't raise until at least the turn, considering there aren't any good draws. I C/R the turn. If he checks behind, I value bet the river.

raise preflop.

i lead the flop, but understand, i lead almost every flop I raise so it could mean anything.

However, I don't know how you play and how they view you.

But this flop is very safe, I think you can bet half the pot or 3/4. If you want action, go for the check, it's alright. At this level, no one probably notices or cares your prior actions.

If you limp preflop and it's raised behind. I'd c/c the flop, and maybe raise the turn. If he checksthe turn, I check the river to him again to try and get him to bet it. Why? Cause 9/10 he will fold to a river bet and you aren't losing anything.

Let him bet this for you if he wants to.

- Jordan

Preflop: Raise


FLop: Check raise is a horrible play here, it just screams that you have trips. You will probably get a lot more action leading out into this flop.

Im really trying to get into using more reads in my no limit game, the live tracker on office is working great, so any nl thread, I'm going to try and start discussion. I've been making a lot more changing up my play based on what type of opponent I'm against. So in regard to this hand:


If your opponent is:

L/A/A - I think its best to lead, as there are a number of hands he feels safer with and will need to raise you.

L/P/P - Less range hands raising with preflop, so again by leading, he would probably call you. You may also miss bets since he won't be betting as much on the flop.

T/A/A -

T/P/P -


Bah, I don't really know where I"m going with this, but I'm trying

Basically in this example, I think against almost any opponent, you are best leading out. Against an aggressive, you could get him to raise, and then you could evaluate whether to just call or three bet him. Against a passive, you need to get in your bets and have him just calling you the whole way.

Anyone else have thoughts on what types of plays are best against different opponents in this situation? My analysis here is really, really, what's the word, crappy

Really, I just want to get rid of all the overgeneralizations about the players at each limit. The numbers don't lie, even at my 100nl tables where I have lots of hands tracked on my opponents, you've got loose/passive/passives, tight/passive/passives etc etc, very eclectic (is that the word?) mix of players. Really any analysis of a hand is pointless without some numbers/reads on the player

*sorry for the long response

Come to think of it, I lead that flop, too.

leading the flop is fine because most people expect you to slow play your trips every time.

c/r the flop is real bad.

- Jordan

I agree, leading out for maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot is the best play in my opinion. Like an earlier poster said, nobody is going to expect you to come out betting if you flopped trips. Especially here when you're betting into the preflop raiser. By doing so, you're likely going to get called down all the way by any A7 or pp like 88-1010, and if you're lucky, the preflop raiser will go crazy with something like KK. Check-raising like you did, especially that much, is probably only going to get called by a hand that has you beat (at this point obviously only 77). Also, you've got a near stranglehold on the hand, a $5 reraise seems like a scared bet there (I'm not talking about what your opponents are likely to think you think, I'm talking about what it seems like you are actually feeling), take a deep breath, there's no straight or flush draws out there, start extracting chips if you're lucky enough to be in there against a KJ or QJ.

Once again, I find myself unable to fold trips to a half-pot sized bet.

And finally, what do you mean by this? unable to fold trips? There's no reason on earth you should fold this hand at this point, with the information you have. Now later in the hand, if the preflop raiser starts going crazy (say if a K or Q turns) and you have played with him enough to have a read such that you're pretty close to certain he has filled up, then maybe you could start thinking about laying down the trips... but not to a half-pot sized bet on the flop from the preflop raiser.

Please don't post when you have NO idea what's going on.

That is all.

Ice

If You're folding, or thinking You should fold this hand, then You're not getting Smash's strat concept. You have a massive edge here. All You're worried about is 7-7. You have a huge edge over a gutshot draw and an overpair.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I'm pretty sure Smash would say fold the flop according to his mechanical strategy.

That wouldn't make sense. Go ahead and PM him.

You're more than an 80/20 fave against a gutshot draw and close to a 90/10 against a pair. There's no flush draw. You have top kicker to the trips. If You're kicker was low it would be different.

I thought some more about this hand.

It seems to me pushing here is as good as pushing bottom set on an uncoordinated board.

If we have bottom set, we are only worried about middle set and top set. There are six combinations of cards that beat us.

On this board when we hold trips with top kicker, we're worried about 7-7 (3 combinations) and J-7 (3 combinations), so there are again six hands that beat us.

With set over set, we are drawing to one out.

When we have trips with top kicker, we have more outs. Against 7-7, we are drawing to an ace (3 outs), a jack (1 out) or a running pair higher than 7s (less than one out).

Against J-7, we are drawing to an ace (3 outs) or a running pair higher than 7s for a split (less than half an out).

And it seems that hands that are behind ours are as far or farther behind than the hands that are behind bottom set.

Doesn't Doyle advocate leading out with his monster hands like trips here?
Your opponents will most likely (at that level) think "This guys doesn't have a set, as everyone knows that you slowplay a set."
The check-raise screams of a set, hence the opponent quit.

Check-raise = bad. Lead out = good. 8)

This is exactly why I lead out with trips on a paired board and sometimes stone cold bluff check-raise from the blinds on a board of xxB.