Hey. Im starting to get in to Stud Hi/Lo more and more and I had a few questions:

What is a suitable bankroll for Stud Hi/Lo? I would assume it is a little less than Hold'Em since the variance isnt as strong, and if you are a good player you won't have very many losing sessions. Am I right assuming like 200BB?

What is a good win rate ( BB/100 ) for stud 8? Once again, I assume more than hole'em. Im thinking anywhere between ~5 and ~8 BB/ 100 is about right?

for me the variance was higher in stud 8 than holdem. It's easier to get outdrawn in stud, a lot easier. I'd have to look at my spreadsheet to see my win rate, but the ups and downs were more severe than I've had in holdem so far.

My current account on Absolute started at $150, and is now over $350, mainly due to Stud 8 (I dabble at Omaha Hi/Lo and LHE, but are very frustrated with both lately). This was playing at 0.50/1.00, and only sitting down with about $25 tops each session.

Not saying what I have done is correct or even what otheres should do, but is my guideline, FWIW. :wink:

It depends on the competition. But, in general, split pot games will have a lower win rate than hi-only games. You don't scoop as often as you think and when you hit your monster hands, like quads, you only get half the pot.

Against a good table, your win rate per hour will be rather low.

Against a loose table, you'll be able to make a decent amount. But you'd make more on a loose stud hi table than a loose stud/8 table. Stud/8's a better ride, though. It gets crazy.

The trial and error of finding out if you're a good stud/8 player will be quite costly. You can burn through your bankroll in no time if you don't have the discipline to lay down hands or you chase too much. You can easily lose 1BB/minute if you're not careful.

If you want a low variance game, play Omaha/8. I think stud/8 is probably the highest variance game I've played. Limit game, anyway.

Stud 8 should take the smallest bankroll to overcome variance. Someone said that it is way easier to get drawn out on, i strongly disagree. First off, you can have someone drawing completely dead for either the hi or the lo and still trail your odds of scooping. Even if you do get outdrawn for one half, you still get the other half. If you play stud 8 correctly, and you have the best of it more times than not then you will certainly win in the long run. Even the shortrun outcomes should be pretty consistent.

The problem is the "if you play correctly" part. The skills of patience, discipline, and reading ability are magnified in this game. Any leaks tend to get exaggerated.

The biggest problem is that collusion is normal in this game. What I call "incidental collusion." After 5 cards, player A has a high straight, player B has a made 6-4 low. If there are more players in the hand, A and B are going to cap each betting round from there on out (until the other players fold, in which case they'll check or single bet). If you're stuck in the middle with a pair of aces and a rough low draw, you could really get hurt. That's why I say the variance is higher. The pots get jammed more and, every now and then, you'll think you have something locked up and end up with nothing after capping 2 or 3 betting rounds.

Sounds like i found one of your major leaks. If you have a pair of aces and a rough lo draw then you shouldn't be in against players showing a 6-4 lo and a guy with a straight. I would be capping in that spot as well to get money from the guy that just can't let go of his aces. That scenario is all too common in stud, the player with the straight knows that he already has the hi pretty wrapped up (unless you are rolled up, in which case it is rare enough that he need not be concerned anyways), and the guy with the 6-4 lo can already see that neither opponents have a chance at taking that part of the pot from him. Both players clearly benefit most from betting and splitting the money from the pair hands chasing them. A common problem with many players is that they simply play too many hands, and take the wrong hands too far. It's a costly mistake.

Also give stud hi-lo sng's a shot, they are by far the easiest to beat.

That was my point. Not being able to let go of hands like that is a big time leak. If you don't have the discipline to let them go, the patience to wait for something better, or the card reading ability to know you're in trouble, then this can be a very costly game.

In hold-em, you could go to a lower limit, play real loose, toss your chips around, and maybe come close to breaking even. Not with Stud/8. You play loose like that and you're money'll be gone in no time.

I haven't tried the Stud sng's. I'll try a couple and see how they go. The ring games are so soft, I usually just stick to those. Although, I guess sng's are usually softer than ring games so that would make the sng's easy pickins. Hadn't thought about that before.