I just started learning PLO High. I've played a little, read a couple of articles, and the section in Super System 2, so still very much a newb. I generally nut peddle, as I mostly get a lot of loose passive players (I usually limp PF too, not confident about my hand selection yet) and occasionally push good draws.

.50/.50 Pot Limit (I'd prefer a lower limit to learn, but this is the lowest PL game)
PRE-FLOP Hero dealt 9 A 3 2
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 fold, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero checks, Blind #2 bets $2, UTG calls $2, MP1 calls $2, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, Hero calls $2.
Total pot: $15 ($13 when I had to call $2)

FLOP board cards 8 2 4:diamond:
Hero checks, Blind #2 bets $4, UTG calls $4, MP1 calls $4, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $4.
Total pot: $31 ($27 when I had to call $4)
TURN board cards 8 2 4 10
Hero checks, Blind #2 bets $5, UTG folds, MP1 calls $5, Hero calls $5.
Total pot:$46 ($41 when I had to call $5)

RIVER board cards 8 2 4 10 7
Hero checks, Blind #2 bets $5, MP1 calls $5, Hero folds.

I assume PF call was too loose? What kind of odds should I chase when I have two of my own outs - or should I never do it? I thought it was kind of like having 3 or 4 to a straight.
Thanks

This hand looked nice until I realized we were talking
only about omaha high.

As far as that goes, it needs to be in the muck preflop,
every single time.

As for why, it should be apparent. You flop a draw to
the nut flush, and are thereby basically stuck in the hand
but as you say the problem with that is you have a lot
of the cards in your hand that you'll need to complete your hand.

If you happen to hit your straight I think you're still in trouble.
PLO is a game where you don't want to be playing hands with
all 4 cards in the same suit, and especially not cards that
have large gaps in between them.

nuff said.

I agree.

You can get away with playing these types of hands if you can come up with the odds on the spot with your all draws. Omaha is a real test of skill in that department, not to mention O/8.

Yes, quite.

Don't even think about that hand in PLO.

Throw it away. Please.

Well, since you seem to have been taught to throw it away, let's move on.

You flopped the nut flush draw, which will almost always be good if it is made. You had four diamonds, and two were on the board, so seven were left in the deck.

A23489 are out
56710JQK are left.

The 10 counts as about .25 to .5 of an out, because it pairs the board, so let's just go the conservative way and throw it completely out.

You now have 6 outs
567JQK

6/45 unseen cards is 13.3 percent.
Two cards left, let's give it 26% even.

You are 3:1 to make your hand by the river, and it is almost certainly good, so your flop call getting 6.75:1 was ok. Even considering that you would have to call a bet on the turn, you were getting twice what you needed.

On the turn, you were getting 8:1 when you were about 6.5:1 to make your hand, so that was a fine call.

However, you have to assume that some of those diamonds are out in other people's hands, especially the K and one other, because one of the callers could darn well be drawing to the second nut flush. Thinking about this, you only had 4 outs twice, or about 4.8:1 on the flop, and 10:1 on the river (rough estimates).

I am completely ballparking my numbers, but that makes your flop call fine and your turn call bad, just in case you wanted to know about that.

In short, flop was not bad, but not great considering you would have to call another bet on the turn. River was bad completely.

If any of my numbers are off, tell me because I don't want to be screwing my stuff up.

Thanks everyone. This kind of hand is the kind that has been tripping me up - various draws, but one bad card.

Thanks for the odds, JesseW316. I'm never sure how to count outs that may be in someone's hand, so I just fell back on counting all 7. I'd reevaluate if the 10 came.

Thanks for the help.


Man I wish you could use 3 cards from your hand

Could you imagine?? That game would be insane...

"Yeah, well my quads beat your full house"

"Well too bad, my straight flush is best..."

I don't think the pre-flop call was all that bad from the SB (or whatever it is called in that game).

After the flop - If you were going to call that size of bet anyhow, why not put one in yourself first?

Yes, you have the nut flush draw, but unless my math is wrong I think it is a losing proposition to go to the river here with that hand, as it appears your only way to win is to make the flush (that does not make a full house on the board).

I only play O8, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt... 8)