Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) converter

Preflop: econ_tim is BB with [6h], [Ts].
1 fold, SB completes, econ_tim checks.

Flop: (5 SB) [5c], [2h], [3d] (5 players)
SB checks, econ_tim checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, SB folds, econ_tim calls.

Got it?

How are your implied odds high here?

Because if he hits his gin card (any 4) he's likely
to get paid off by some donk with an ace, I would think
is what he's referring to.

If a 4 hits, his 6 high beats all the aces. Merry cap happen and there be much rejoicing.

So you have 4 fours and 3 tens that are likely to give you the best hand. So you have roughly 6-1 odds to hit on the turn, making your call marginal but sound, technically.

I don't, however, see your implied odds as being high at all. suited connectors and low pairs have higher implied odds because their value is disguised somewhat when they hit. for example, only one 3 on the board, but 2 in your hand= higher implied odds. or 98s with a T76 board= higher implied odds. WHen that 4 hits, it's going to be pretty obvious that a straight is possible, hence your implied odds decrease.

Additionally, implied odds diminish greatly as the field of opponents decreases. So having your straight hit on a flop with 6 players is much, much better than having it hit with 3. Again, smaller amount of participants, lower implied odds.

I think this is a marginal hand, and your tens may not be full outs, so either way is close.

You're heads up. Chances are you won't get anywhere near the implied odds you need. Let's count up the outs. You've got a one-card gutshot and two (weak overs).

For the sake of argument, let's assume let's assume the gutshot gives you 4 clean outs (but it might not). Your 6 is a weak over. You'd still be behind to a pair of 7s or better. Let's count that as 1/2 an out. The 10 out is slightly better, but still not great. There's a lot of people who won't raise 1010, JJ, or QQ preflop at 1/2 on party. Let's call it 1 out.

That's 5.5 outs. Your immediate pot odds are 6 to 1. Obviously not good.

Now for the implied odds. Let's look at the best case scenario. You hit the 4 on the turn, get in a checkraise, and a call on the river. You'll win 3 BB from the villain. Okay so that means you're getting 12 to 1 implied odds on your call. While that's more than sufficient for a call, it's the best case scenario.

Next we have to ask the question... are we prepared to go to the river? If so, then we have to drop the implied odds a bit.

I think this is a fold.

edit: Never Mind I missed a caller. That changes things a good bit.

You consider the 10 outs clean?

That was actually the main reason for my earlier question about how high the implied odds are. I was just too lazy to go into detail.

Also, don't forget that if a 4 comes you still could be beat by a 6-7 suited hand. And that any non Ace hand will often times not pay you off with four to the straight on the board. No guarantee that it's out there.

7-1 actual pot odds on your gutshot... if you can make up the bets when you hit, more power to you.

I think you guys may be overestimating how hard it is to make up the bets I need to call.

The pot is laying me 7 to 1. If I only count my 4 outs as clean, I need 10.5 to 1 to call.

That's 3.5 bets I need to make up, but they are small bets.

Since the bet sizes double the next round, I only need two callers, or one raiser, for my implied odds to make calling here correct. I think it's pretty easy to make this up most times, especially since most donks will stick around this flop with A-x. 6-7 could beat me, but that happens too rarely to count.

No, not entirely, and I actually said as much in my original post, but it wasn't in the right spot, so it was easy to miss.

That said, I would count them as more than 1 out. I see is as pretty likely that the bettor has top pair, good kicker, and the caller has anything from top pair to overcards. even 7s, 8s, and 9s we can beat if we hit our 10. So I would give it maybe 2 outs instead of 3 or 1, and I guess throw in your 0.5 for your tainted 6 outs, and he has outs to call. I still am not in love with the play, but it appears to work mathematically.

this is bad, I mean real bad. If you had 76, I can see it, but you just have a one card gutshot, so that makes this blow

As I scrolled down I was wondering why nobody had said this yet.

Where is the argument here? All I see is a one card gutshot with negligable implied odds. Even if MP1 has an A and the gutshot hits I'm sure he'll realize he is at best going to chop after the first few bets so he'll just call you down.

So Tim, you don't trust the FCP crew do ya? I just saw that you posted the same hand at 2+2.

That said, they do bring up one good point that leads more favorably towards a call - namely, that you're closing the action. You aren't fearing a raise behind you.

Hi. I did. Now where's my F-ing cookie!

So did I. I want cookies and beer.

Yeah, I posted this on 2+2 just to make sure I hadn't lost my poker skillz.

I know I have a one card gutshot, and that someone with an ace could just call me down, but one person calling me down is all I need.

I don't think you give up too much by folding here, but I think calling is better.

tim, I'd be more then glad to say the same thing over at 2+2, though I don't really post in micros. its simple, if you had 76 here, I can see the reasoning, but with the one card gutshot, I see no reason at all, you donked this up pretty bad

I'm not saying the advice at 2+2 proves anything. I was just surprised that no one here liked calling.

I think this hand is a little more subtle than me having a one card gutshot. I have a one card gutshot that will often get paid off by anyone who holds an ace.

When I played this hand, it reminded me of O8b and quartering people who have the wheel when you make a higher straight.

no, its really not all that subtle, if the pot was slightly bigger, eh, maybe, but there is nothing about this flop that I personally like, and to be honest, the 2p2 micros forum kinda blows. A lot of the advice is very off base and a lot of the better posters don't post in micros anymore. HUSH and SS are the best places right now, MHS would be awesome if some of the better posters didn't only comment on hands that are only in their limit range

Turn: (4 BB) [4s] (3 players)
econ_tim bets, MP1 calls.

All right. You don't like my flop play, and I think you might not like my turn play either.

no, the turn play blows. YOu should be CRing this. I also think that you are doing a little results oriented thinking. WHy get this HU, you aren't making up the BBs that you needed to by allowing the MP1 to raise and shit out the MP2, bad, real real bad, you really fucked this hand up in many ways

I was unsure about the turn play too.

But the worst outcome is it getting checked around the turn.

And I make up my bets if both call my bet or if one player raises.

Still, I think there's a big enough chance of someone betting that I should have c/r-ed.

I suppose that's possible, but I don't think that's what I'm doing.

I really don't care if I was right or wrong in calling the flop. I just want to figure out what is correct to do in the future.