Party Poker PLO8 ($.5/$1) (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [2c], [Ks], [4s], [Ad].
1 fold, SB calls, BB checks.

Pot = $5
Flop: [8s], [Jd], [7h] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Pot = $5
Turn: [Kc] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Pot = $5
River: [Qd] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2.40, Hero folds....

Final Pot:

I kinda hate myself for not bet/folding the turn. Should I?

Yep, pot the damn turn.

Good fold on the river.

Shouldn't the pot size be $10 instead of $5?

Depending on the opponents (but you need some good reads on them), I may even pot the flop and turn.

Shouldn't the pot size be $10 instead of $5?

yeah, that's my bad. thinking limit while manually editing. converter doesn't really work on omaha hands. BB is $1.

what will potting the turn accomplish?

On one hand, you will likely drive off any customers who wanted to quarter you. On the other, the donk with two pair chasing the boat/hoping the low doesn't hit isn't going anywhere. Granted, you ahve a lot of outs to the low, but I don't really see you picking up the high here, or driving out any competitors for the high. I think you can accomplish all you can hope to accomplish with less than a pot bet on the turn. really here, I only see you trying to sidestep getting quartered.

I would bet maybe half the pot or so on the turn, but definitely the turn. and I would have laid down on the river.

You are playing a better than average hand from a very poor position (if your ace was suited it would be a great hand...) so here's my thoughts:
I think you could throw in a bet on the flop there, as there are only two people yet to act, but you don't have to (which you didn't, which is fine).
Now the turn...the only reason I would have put in a bet on the turn is becuase nobody showed any strength after the flop. No flushes possible, so that leaves only straights, sets and two pair to worry about. Since you didn't bet the flop, AND nobody else has shown any aggression, make them pay to hit their low/catch a straight. Sure, two pair and a set aren't going to go anywhere, but they haven't shown any aggresson either, so maybe there aren't any... 8)

Did you mean the flop? It's quite complicated and right now I feel like lazy to explain it in details. But in short, I want to win it right there or get info from the reactions of my opponents (as usual you need to know your opponents well to make this kind of move).

You will amazed how many times I've seen players keep chasing with A2 on the flop then finally give up on the river.

I definitely meant the turn. I want to set the price for one card, not two.

Oh I see, I thought you meant to say you would bet some on the flop then definitely the turn.

If you were playing against me and you bet less than the pot, and if I had position on you, I would play back on you, it didn't matter what I had. Why? The board cards were very undefined at the moment, and I could represent that I was slowplaying my made str8 on the flop, set, .... How could you react if I pot you back?

Wait my bad, if you were up against solid players, you shouldn't put him on a made straight, just couldn't afford the low draws, boat... on the flop.

More often than not, I would give it up. I might stick around to try and hit my low, if you were representing a made high, but for a pot-sized bet I don't think it is worth *teddy kgb voice* hhhhhhhhanging around, hhhhhhanging around for. On the other hand, slowplays tend to be rare in Omaha, since people call so much anyway. It depends on my read here, but as I said to start, I would kiss the hand goodbye most of the time. One pair and a low draw is not a stand-making hand in Omaha.

I would also file that away for later when I had a real hand.

This is just not a good place for me to be hurling money around.

Didn't realize you were going to talk yourself out of the play.

I kind of hinted about my read playing a role, and you have described EXACTLY what I would think about. But then, one measly pair doesn't beat much in this game, and you could easily be bluffing with the best hand here.

What I was trying to say is, on the turn I would either just check (if the next two players are good players so I was OOP), or if I decided to make a play, I would only to pot it, not a cent less.

Right, which I guess points back to my original question:

What does potting accomplish that a lesser bet does not?

why in the world would you bet this turn?

this is an easy check/check/check/fold.

this is a game of big edges, guys. TPTK is almost NEVER the best hand, and betting here will accomplish nothing.

gladly take the free card.

aseem

It's because no one has shown strength on the flop, if the flop didn't help them, how could a K on the turn help much (don't forget that you are also holding the K!)? If you pot the turn, you are more than 50% likely to take the pot there. If you got called, you could assume your opponent was on some draws (against good players, the big bets happen here for this type of board, visit this link for great discussions, , especially the reply from gergery. It's not the same situation, but somehow similar, and you can learn something from the thread). If you got potted back, you can safetly toss it. But it's a +EV move to take the pot right there.

But if you bet less than the pot here, you are running the rish getting play back.

The only value from a bet here is to keep from getting quartered if you hit your low, part of why potting it is bad strategy. It depends on the rest of the pot, and I wasn't following to closely, I would think isolating on the low can be a good play, if you can get it at a cheap price. Of course, that price is hard to come by.

While free is a great price, I think the potential of getting it outright from folds combined with improving on the low would make a smaller bet somewhat profitable here.

Aseem, I really do respect your limit holdem plays and analysis, but when it's at PLO8 at higher levels, I think you are really weak tight. If I were playing against you I could steal a lot from you and dodge your bullets. Visit http://www.ribbo.com and follow the hand history link to see how he played his hands so aggressively, he's a winning player, also visit 2+2 forum for his posts.

By the way, can you comment some of the LHE plays I posted today, I would appreciate it. I am starting to learn it. Thanks. http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=24137

You run that risk either way. I doubt that half-pot bet would induce significantly more bluffs than a pot-sized bet. And you shouldn't plan your strategy around "what if he bluffs here?" If he makes a ballsy bluff, pat him on the head and save that move for when you have the nuts.

And really, that situation was NOT that similar. This where Paul Phillips makes a really snarky remark about wildly different the situation really is.

Granted, I don't really view bluffing as a major part of my game in Omaha, except for the odd naked-ace bluff here and there. In fact, I would generally prefer to play more of a sophisticated Post Oak bluff in Omaha, if I were going to do that. Your argument that a K is unlikely to help also figures into the thoughts of the other players.

Truthfully, I think we will have to "agree to disagree" here. I don't think attacking with a pot-sized bet has significantly more value than a much smaller bet, but I do think it makes your play more expensive. I grant that you are a more aggressive PLO8 player than I am, but it is an expensive mistake to assume everyone plays like you. I don't think a lot of players would re-pot it there on a steal attempting to represent the same slow-played straight that you are representing with this bet.

Yes I built my image as being a loose aggressive player there, but this turn size bet was very small and it's good to build the loose aggressive image. But really when the big bets were going on, I always had a solid half and good draws on the other side, and my image helped me to get more chips in the pot. No I am not assuming everyone played like I did, I have seen player slowplayed something like AA23 ds and flopped A55 and some poor players lost all his chips in that pot.