I have what may be an odd and math-heavy question. What I'm really looking for is whether anyone has addressed this particular question in a book or well-thought-out discussion. So I suppose that the answer I'm looking for is either "No, I've never seen this discussed," or "Yes, you'd enjoy <book> by <author>." OK, here goes....

Is there a discussion of how to properly evaluate your chip stack in a tournament, as opposed to a ring game, and how that affects certain "pot odds" types of decisions? Here is an example of what I mean:

Suppose you are playing at a NL table with $1-$2 blinds, and every player has $100 in front of him. Someone in middle position is the first to act and he goes all-in. Everyone else folds to you, the button, and you have a hand that, considering the possible hands your opponent has, makes you believe that you are exactly 50-50 to win the hand. You also are certain that the blinds will fold if you call.

If you fold, you will definitely be left with your original stack of $100.
If you call, you will have a stack of $0 50% of the time, and a stack of $203 50% of the time.

From a strictly "expected value" point of view, the proper decision is to call:

EV(call) = .5 * $203 + .5 * $0 = $101.50 > $100 = EV(fold)

But suppose that this happens, not in a NL ring game, but on the first hand of a NL freeze-out tourament. The results are the same in terms of chips, but "203" tournament chips are not redeemable for $203, and "100" tournament chips are not redeemable for $100. ("0" in chips after one hand of a tournament are, on the other hand, exactly equal to $0.)

In a *tournament*, a chip stack really doesn't represent dollars, but instead represents your probability of finishing in various cashing places of the tourney or of finishing out of the money.

So my question is whether there is any literature that discusses this question or offers any insight on how to convert a particular chip stack into a monetary expected value.

Thank you for your polite consideration of my post.

Mondo300816
(300 - March 1993, November 1999, September 2003, October 2003)
(816 - December 2004)

Good questions.

Harrington on Hold em 1 & 2 addresses these and a ton of other tourney issues and is a must read for any NL Hold em tourney player

Sklansky's "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players" is great too

Good luck

Harrington on Holdem is a definate read, and goes into things such as this. Highly recommended. 8)

ok, let me first warn you that this is an EXTREMELY complicated subject.

the simplest formula you can use is the Landrum/Burns formula:

Player X has C chips
N = players left including X
TC = total chips in play
P= first place prize
TP = total prize pool left

X's fair share =



beyond that, it gets really complicated with a ton of factors including payout schedule, your estimated edge, and more.

sklansky and paul philips are the two most respected players who have studied this subject in depth. you can try googling RGP, but that forum sucks. i'll try to find some stuff on 2+2 for you in the meantime.

aseem

HOH vol 2 actually spends time talkin about this...its called Inflection points and it helps to determine stack size and how to play based off of stack size...though its in volume 2 i wouldnt skip volume 1 as it builds up to volume 2...but yeah if u are going to play mtt then HOH is a must read

I'm almost done with Harrington's first book and he touches on this subject in a very easy to understand way. I would highly recommend it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat...w=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

like i said, be warned, this is an EXTREMELY EXTREMELY EXTREMELY mathematical and complex and difficult situation to understand.

that link up there, though, has a bunch more links to stuff you might like to read.

good luck,
aseem

Much thanks to all who took the time to reply with suggested readings and formulae. I am very appreciative of all your help.

- Mondo300816
300 (March 1993, November 1999, September 2003, October 2003)
816 (December 2004)