Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 10:19 AM
Ok, every Friday I get together with just about the same people for a tournament, it's about 15-20 guys. Anyway, some of these people are just so afraid to play against me and a few others post flop that they tend to go all in preflop.
Example, there's one guy who goes all in ALOT. I've gotten to see quite a few of his all ins, they have ranged from pocket 2s-As, he's gone all in with Ax (off or suited), 2 face cards. Normally when I play I'll make standard raises to just over the standard raises with good cards, but no matter if this guy sits on my right or left, he will go all in even after he limps. Last week, he limps in and then from the SB I raise with AQs, he then says, "Screw it, I'm all in." I call, he goes all in with a K/9s and catches a 9 to beat me. Or another one where I raised with AK, he goes all in with J/10o, he catches his J, to take another pot from me.
I have no problem calling his all ins with AK, AQ or high pocket pairs. But should I just raise with those cards and limp in with anything else, knowing that there's a strong possibility that he'll go all in? I mean seriously, this guy has made it known that he doesn't want to play me for a pot because he knows I'll outplay him after the flop. So should I just limp in with my hands from now and outplay them?
Alot of these guys like to limp in with trash hands and I can't let them catch anything if I have good cards which is why I raise, but it makes it tough when someone is always going all in.
Suggestions?
Rocketwadster
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 10:24 AM
Patience is a virtue...Hellmuth (the man, the myth, the legend) is a master of patience. He knows that his opponents like to go over-the-top (sometimes all-in) against him, as he will lay it down unless he has a good read or a good hand. Ace Queen suited is a nice hand, but not one to go all-in with. Weather the storm, and you will catch him overplaying his hand... 8)
JacKingOff_suit
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 10:59 AM
It took me a long time, really, a long time, to realize that one of the funamental concepts in poker, it is about making the right decisions, and the result is secondary.
I used to think about I would rather get lucky than playing correctly, that's an absolutely bad idea. Sometimes I got lucky and outdrew my opponents and I took it for granted and thought that's the way to play, eventually it came back to haunt me, that's why over 90% players are losers in the long run.
Now in NLH it's about exploiting small edges, especially in tournaments (which unlike full table ring games that you can afford to wait for nuts at low limit tables to cash out big). You claimed that you've got AQs against his 9Ks and AK vs his JTo preflop allin. You were about 2 to 1 favorite preflop (I think, haven't checked it for accuracy), you should be happy to have a sucker kept doing that in the long run.
Remember one thing, just don't let the bad-beats to run you over, don't make bad plays like him after taking bad beats. That's what it counts.
Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 10:59 AM
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
Patience is a virtue...Hellmuth (the man, the myth, the legend) is a master of patience. He knows that his opponents like to go over-the-top (sometimes all-in) against him, as he will lay it down unless he has a good read or a good hand. Ace Queen suited is a nice hand, but not one to go all-in with. Weather the storm, and you will catch him overplaying his hand... 8)
I called his all in with AQ because I started getting tired of him just doing it to me almost all the time. My question is what should I do next time, just limp in with AQ or just keep making standard raises with it?
Should I just raise with the top pocket pairs and limp with everything else? If I do this, to me it means that they have already beaten me at this game mentally.
Rocketwadster
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 11:06 AM
QUOTE (Gallo)
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
Patience is a virtue...Hellmuth (the man, the myth, the legend) is a master of patience. He knows that his opponents like to go over-the-top (sometimes all-in) against him, as he will lay it down unless he has a good read or a good hand. Ace Queen suited is a nice hand, but not one to go all-in with. Weather the storm, and you will catch him overplaying his hand... 8)
I called his all in with AQ because I started getting tired of him just doing it to me almost all the time. My question is what should I do next time, just limp in with AQ or just keep making standard raises with it?
Should I just raise with the top pocket pairs and limp with everything else? If I do this, to me it means that they have already beaten me at this game mentally.
Way too many factors to consider here (ie. position, stack sizes, your M, your Q, your oppoent(s) M, your opponents Q, etc.) Read Harrington on Hold-em, and all will be revealed. 8)
Blink20
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 11:12 AM
You read your opponent correctly, got all in with the best hand but the odds are you won't win close to 100% of the time. AQ vs K9 isn't that big of a favorite.
I do however disagree you can't go all in with AQ. Everything is situational in nl. Stack sizes and everything else is important, but from the information you gave us, with your read of your opponent, I think your play is fine.
Don't worry about the results, keep getting in with the best of it and good luck.
Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 11:37 AM
QUOTE
Way too many factors to consider here (ie. position, stack sizes, your M, your Q, your oppoent(s) M, your opponents Q, etc.) Read Harrington on Hold-em, and all will be revealed. 8)
Um, I've already read Harrington's book on hold 'em. So I do know about the position and about the stack sizes aspect of the game. But it makes it tough because he goes all in alot, people don't normally call him so he just takes alot of little pots and his stack increases while mine takes small hits. I'm not afraid to make a stand against his all in, but I'm not going to just wait for pockets to go all in with. That's why my question is if I should just limp in with my good hands and try to play after flop.
Rocketwadster
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 11:42 AM
Try to get there early, so you can see where he sits, to give you the best position if he is the only player you fear.
Or, if there are 15 - 20 players each week, make sure you are at the table that he isn't at. Let someone else do all the dirtywork against him.
8)
Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 12:21 PM
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
Try to get there early, so you can see where he sits, to give you the best position if he is the only player you fear.
Or, if there are 15 - 20 players each week, make sure you are at the table that he isn't at. Let someone else do all the dirtywork against him.
8)
Normally when we do the tournies it's jus random, just my luck that he's been at my table the past 3 weeks. I've tried to let someone else do the dirty work, but one of 2 things happen, 1) He wins and gets all the chips 2) The other person wins and gets all the chips. And in both cases I don't get any.
zeropants
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 1:26 PM
QUOTE (JacKingOff_suit)
It took me a long time, really, a long time, to realize that one of the funamental concepts in poker, it is about making the right decisions, and the result is secondary.
That's about the best advice you can get in a situation like this, or for poker in general.
Make the right decisions, probability will end up paying you off. You may not get huge increases in a short time, but you won't lose huge down the line either.
That is the way to play for profit.
Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 1:49 PM
Thanx for the replies guys.
DB10-2
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 4:35 PM
QUOTE (Gallo)
Thanx for the replies guys.
next time you get a decent hand, look the guy right in the face and say "all in." if he raises before you and have you any semblance of a hand, look the guy right in the face and say "all in." let the guy know you won't be pushed around with his garbage.*
* disclaimer: don't do this if the usual positional, chip stack, and other factors apply. if you can get one up on him though, you should do it. i've had subtly aggressive players at a game i play try this kind of garbage with me until i made it clear that if they wanted to get cute i'd be moving them in with any two cards every time. it's dramatically cut down on people steal raising in position on me.
strategy
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 4:50 PM
I used to play a ton of NLHE heads up matches with my brother, and he would always use this tactic against me. Rather than play postflop, he'll just put it in and take the blinds if he can.
The counter to this is somewhere inbetween calling with something like KJs and going into a Hellmuth turtle shell. You become the bad player if you're calling your chips off with QJo, and you also become extremely exploitable if they know you'll fold AJ to an all-in reraise every time. Wait until you have a hand that can beat most of his possible holdings and go with it.
Check out this ancient RGP post... everybody really should read it
http://tinyurl.com/39a28
Gallo
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 6:16 PM
QUOTE (strategy)
I used to play a ton of NLHE heads up matches with my brother, and he would always use this tactic against me. Rather than play postflop, he'll just put it in and take the blinds if he can.
The counter to this is somewhere inbetween calling with something like KJs and going into a Hellmuth turtle shell. You become the bad player if you're calling your chips off with QJo, and you also become extremely exploitable if they know you'll fold AJ to an all-in reraise every time. Wait until you have a hand that can beat most of his possible holdings and go with it.
Check out this ancient RGP post... everybody really should read it
http://tinyurl.com/39a28
The thing with this guy is he's a big time fish, which is why he'd rather go all in than risk going to the flop against me. Position doesn't matter to this guy if he's early or late, if he's to my left or right. If he limps and someone raises there's a chance he just goes all in, but most of the time it's against me.
Like I've said before, there's been times that he's limped in and I've had position on him and then when it comes to him, he'll just go all in.
strategy
Tuesday, July 19th, 2005, 7:27 PM
QUOTE (Gallo)
QUOTE (strategy)
I used to play a ton of NLHE heads up matches with my brother, and he would always use this tactic against me. Rather than play postflop, he'll just put it in and take the blinds if he can.
The counter to this is somewhere inbetween calling with something like KJs and going into a Hellmuth turtle shell. You become the bad player if you're calling your chips off with QJo, and you also become extremely exploitable if they know you'll fold AJ to an all-in reraise every time. Wait until you have a hand that can beat most of his possible holdings and go with it.
Check out this ancient RGP post... everybody really should read it
http://tinyurl.com/39a28
The thing with this guy is he's a big time fish, which is why he'd rather go all in than risk going to the flop against me. Position doesn't matter to this guy if he's early or late, if he's to my left or right. If he limps and someone raises there's a chance he just goes all in, but most of the time it's against me.
Like I've said before, there's been times that he's limped in and I've had position on him and then when it comes to him, he'll just go all in.
My point in posting the link was that you'll have better than average results if you get your money in with AJ vs K9 or what have you EVERY TIME in a tournament. He may be a fish in your eyes, but he obviously knows that NL has an exploitable avenue against skilled opponents. Don't worry about it, just call him with your AQ etc. and you'll take his money--any edge is a good edge.
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