e3monroe
Saturday, July 9th, 2005, 9:17 PM
i am holding 910JQ. flop comes down 678, 2 hearts. I dont know if this is wrong, but i lead out and bet the pot, guy calls, next dude reraises the pot. I follow with a reraise pot size bet, putting me all in. Now i do not know what odds the other guy was getting on his money but he called my bet quickly turning the nut flush. Now i took it well but can anyone offer any advice as to if i could have did something different or played it a different way?
Wingmaster05
Saturday, July 9th, 2005, 9:50 PM
not much really. in low limit omaha, the lower straights are going to put their money in (drawing dead to you), not to menti0n you can't lose to a higher turn/river straight. depending how much money you have, a set might get away (ehh...i take that back if he had the moxie to raise the pot on the flop), and of course, the nut flush never goes away (sw. kind of.)
some would tell you to just call the bet on the flop, see a harmless turn, then put your money in. Yet the "bad cards" you don't want to see are quie a few. first the 9 hearts, then each board card twice and the non heart three times. 17 cards. 17 cards and 41 left: 40 percent of the cards left are ugly enough to make you fold. Might work against real players, but not entry level. Personally i think this is a pathetic play, mainly due to the craziness of bad omaha players. In fact, since you lead out into the pot (which is the right play), he could be raising with a set/fl draw to push out a lower straight who believes he is drawing dead.
simply put, you flop a big hand and in omaha, and with some many damn cards in your hand, someone is going to gamble.
greatwhite
Monday, July 11th, 2005, 6:39 AM
It would have been better to just call on the flop and went all in on the turn so long as there was no heart.
mk
Monday, July 11th, 2005, 7:58 AM
Fold this on the flop when potted back to you. If you're saying, "I can't fold the nuts!!!" then you might want to play hold 'em. In this siuation (if the game is reasonable), you are almost always up against someone with the same straight as you, but with the heart re-draw.
Of course, if you're playing micro or something you might want to stay with the hand. Some donkey might pot it with the ignorant end, but in any reasonable game...
fold.
Kendren
Monday, July 11th, 2005, 8:08 AM
QUOTE (mk)
Fold this on the flop when potted back to you. If you're saying, "I can't fold the nuts!!!" then you might want to play hold 'em. In this siuation (if the game is reasonable), you are almost always up against someone with the same straight as you, but with the heart re-draw.
Of course, if you're playing micro or something you might want to stay with the hand. Some donkey might pot it with the ignorant end, but in any reasonable game...
fold.
And cry until the heart hits, then go "hey, I'm figuring this game out"
mk
Monday, July 11th, 2005, 9:19 AM
QUOTE (Kendren)
QUOTE (mk)
fold.
And cry until the heart hits, then go "hey, I'm figuring this game out"
or until you chop and see the other guy had the re-draw.
Kendren
Monday, July 11th, 2005, 9:57 AM
QUOTE (mk)
QUOTE (Kendren)
QUOTE (mk)
fold.
And cry until the heart hits, then go "hey, I'm figuring this game out"
or until you chop and see the other guy had the re-draw.
Right. We're agreeing, go ahead, fold this, and wait for your spot with the nuts and a big redraw. then go get your money back with interest.
noclue2
Friday, July 29th, 2005, 7:19 PM
you flopped the straight....nice flop...you bet and someone reraises you you raise them back...if they are drawing why not make them pay with the worst hand. he may have top or middle set. if he has a flush draw you are a favorite..also you have the nut straight no matter if a high card turns. so the tools who fold the nuts are nuts....you flop the nuts dont fold it make the draws pay to catch.
mk
Saturday, July 30th, 2005, 7:41 AM
so the tools who fold the nuts are nuts....you flop the nuts dont fold it make the draws pay to catch.
You obviously didn't read our posts. In any reasonable game, if someone is potting it back to you on this flop, they hold the exact same straight as you but with the heart re-draw as well, meaning you are essentially drawing dead. Make sense?
Now, I agree with you that in some weaker games, someone might re-raise with top set here, but we're assuming this is a reasonable game.
bdc30
Friday, August 5th, 2005, 5:08 AM
QUOTE (noclue2)
if he has a flush draw you are a favorite...
Not necessarily. It all depends on what his other 2 cards are.
Sure 2 of them might be hearts, giving him 9 "clean" outs,
but he may also have a set (8-9 more outs), or as others have
said, the same straight as you, with the added bonus of a free flush draw.
When you have to dodge somewhere in the neighbourhood
of 20 outs, not only once, but twice (turn and river), sorry
to tell you, but you're even money at best.
QUOTE (mk)
you might want to play hold 'em.
joeltebbutt
Friday, August 5th, 2005, 5:22 PM
so the tools who fold the nuts are nuts
This is obviously the comment of a man who as no idea of Omaha. With two other players in the pot in a decent game with that much raising it is a guarantee you are tied and it is also guaranteed there are draws out against you so you have got to dodge lots of cards just to win half of the pot
Kendren
Saturday, August 6th, 2005, 10:10 AM
Let's run a little simulation.
you hold: Q

K

8

7
I hold A

K

J

J
Flop: J

10

9
Who is the favorite to win the hand? You, with the "nuts", or me?
Stallion714
Saturday, August 6th, 2005, 9:38 PM
2-1 sir.
Kendren
Monday, August 8th, 2005, 7:44 AM
QUOTE (Stallion714)
2-1 sir.
Indeed, but 2-1 for whom?
Stallion714
Monday, August 8th, 2005, 6:51 PM
Heh. Me. Not me with the current nuts me but...whatever the akjj one.
Kendren
Tuesday, August 9th, 2005, 7:31 AM
QUOTE (Stallion714)
Heh. Me. Not me with the current nuts me but...whatever the akjj one.
Correct. Which is why even with the current nuts, with no easy way to improve (barring runner runner, possibly) and faced with a BIG re-raise, we get out. There's no need to cling to your straight so hard you lose all your money.
agsa6079
Tuesday, August 9th, 2005, 10:04 AM
Call and fold to a big raise. The best you could expect is that the board helps no one and you split. At the very best, no hand is better than 3-2 in Omaha after the flop. If you flop the nut str8 and have no feasible way to improve, run from big bets. A top 5 tip to be a successful PLO player is to know how to fold. Rarely in this game are you facing a bluff, especially a PL bet w/ a caller.
noclue2
Wednesday, August 10th, 2005, 7:31 PM
well lets see what we have here in our reasonable game...
im holding this 9 10 J Q Flop: 6 7 8 with two hearts. I bet pot someone calls and another person re raises me the pot...which by this time would be a very significant raise. and i re reaise all in....
one reason why i call the reraise would be because i already have bet the pot one time, and there was a caller behind me and then a re reraise. he probably has the same hand as me and its very reasonable he might have a flush draw with his hand. i see he ends up losing the hand to a nut flush but it deos not say that he had a made hand at the time. you do have a wrap straight draw if you hit any higher card you will make the nut straight which would be 9 outs the remaining 3 9s 10s or js in the deck give you a better straight which is still the nut straight. so in hindsight you would be pulling for those cards to hit since that would eliminate him haveing the nut straight most of the time. now to mr MK i understand its a reasonable game and im assuming that no one in the game is playing 66 77 88 because to me taht is not a reasonable hand unless it is connected with a A to make a nut straight. in that case you are about an even money shot to win the pot. but still you are getting your money in there on even money..sometimes its bad sometimes its good but the guy who called the pot bet in the first place makes it right to call since there is more money in the pot to justify being in there on a even money shot.
and for mr bdc30...i dont really play very much holdem i am basically an omaha player and a hi/lo split player so i know how to play the game pretty well...there are plenty of arguments of how to play many hands and i feel that he made the right play and someone got lucky to make a flush on him..if he could have seen his cards he would of been in the hand for sure.
you having the 9 10 j Q gives you added value on your straight since you can improve that would have been one of my main reasons for calling the bet...then i would shut my eyes and hope no pair on board and no heart assuming the either had a set...or a flush draw...worst case he has the straight with one of those draws...very unlikely but very possible...but you also have the high straigth draw and hes hoping for no 9 10 j because then you win..its a very difficult hand to play and if you are a gambler you would probably have to gamble..considering it doesnt effect your bankroll and you have plenty of buyins available .... best luck to everyone, noclue
noclue2
Wednesday, August 10th, 2005, 7:33 PM
well lets see what we have here in our reasonable game...
im holding this 9 10 J Q Flop: 6 7 8 with two hearts. I bet pot someone calls and another person re raises me the pot...which by this time would be a very significant raise. and i re reaise all in....
one reason why i call the reraise would be because i already have bet the pot one time, and there was a caller behind me and then a re reraise. he probably has the same hand as me and its very reasonable he might have a flush draw with his hand. i see he ends up losing the hand to a nut flush but it deos not say that he had a made hand at the time. you do have a wrap straight draw if you hit any higher card you will make the nut straight which would be 9 outs the remaining 3 9s 10s or js in the deck give you a better straight which is still the nut straight. so in hindsight you would be pulling for those cards to hit since that would eliminate him haveing the nut straight most of the time. now to mr MK i understand its a reasonable game and im assuming that no one in the game is playing 66 77 88 because to me taht is not a reasonable hand unless it is connected with a A to make a nut straight. in that case you are about an even money shot to win the pot. but still you are getting your money in there on even money..sometimes its bad sometimes its good but the guy who called the pot bet in the first place makes it right to call since there is more money in the pot to justify being in there on a even money shot.
and for mr bdc30...i dont really play very much holdem i am basically an omaha player and a hi/lo split player so i know how to play the game pretty well...there are plenty of arguments of how to play many hands and i feel that he made the right play and someone got lucky to make a flush on him..if he could have seen his cards he would of been in the hand for sure.
you having the 9 10 j Q gives you added value on your straight since you can improve that would have been one of my main reasons for calling the bet...then i would shut my eyes and hope no pair on board and no heart assuming the either had a set...or a flush draw...worst case he has the straight with one of those draws...very unlikely but very possible...but you also have the high straigth draw and hes hoping for no 9 10 j because then you win..its a very difficult hand to play and if you are a gambler you would probably have to gamble..considering it doesnt effect your bankroll and you have plenty of buyins available .... best luck to everyone, noclue
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