I've never really played limit omaha h/l, but thought I'd try something different. Hand converter didn't seem to work.

***** Hand History for Game 2317031366 *****
$0.5/$1 Omaha Hi/Lo - Wednesday, July 06, 00:16:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 32691 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: cattykid ( $20.66 )
Seat 2: Crybabee ( $21.34 )
Seat 3: Overdrive127 ( $30.06 )
Seat 5: tw_41 ( $35.63 )
Seat 7: moves15 ( $18.21 )
Seat 8: rifeman ( $18.32 )
Seat 10: Dbacks113 ( $25 )
Seat 4: econ_tim ( $31.5 )
Seat 9: Ucanxlinlife ( $47.74 )
Seat 6: DallasHarley ( $21.05 )
Crybabee posts small blind [$0.25].
Overdrive127 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to econ_tim [ Ad 8h 6s 2c ]
econ_tim calls [$0.5].
DallasHarley calls [$0.5].
rifeman calls [$0.5].
Ucanxlinlife folds.
cattykid calls [$0.5].
Crybabee folds.
Overdrive127 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 5c, 9s ]
Overdrive127 checks.
econ_tim bets [$0.5].
DallasHarley calls [$0.5].
rifeman calls [$0.5].
cattykid calls [$0.5].
Overdrive127 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7h ]
econ_tim bets [$1].
DallasHarley folds.
rifeman calls [$1].
cattykid calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
econ_tim bets [$1].
rifeman raises [$2].
cattykid calls [$2].
econ_tim raises [$2].
rifeman raises [$2].
cattykid calls [$2].
econ_tim calls [$1].

Here I'm just hoping that someone is playing stupid, don't expect my straight to win, but maybe someone is playing a non-nut hand for part of the pot.

***** Hand History for Game 2317016614 *****
$0.5/$1 Omaha Hi/Lo - Wednesday, July 06, 00:14:18 EDT 2005
Table Table 32691 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: cattykid ( $25.16 )
Seat 2: Crybabee ( $22.34 )
Seat 3: Overdrive127 ( $26.62 )
Seat 5: tw_41 ( $35.63 )
Seat 7: moves15 ( $18.21 )
Seat 8: rifeman ( $20.51 )
Seat 10: Dbacks113 ( $25 )
Seat 4: econ_tim ( $25 )
Seat 9: Ucanxlinlife ( $47.99 )
Seat 6: DallasHarley ( $24.3 )
Ucanxlinlife posts small blind [$0.25].
cattykid posts big blind [$0.5].
DallasHarley posts big blind + dead [$0.75].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to econ_tim [ As 7s Ah 5h ]
Crybabee calls [$0.5].
Overdrive127 folds.
econ_tim calls [$0.5].
DallasHarley checks.
rifeman folds.
Ucanxlinlife folds.
cattykid checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 9s, 6s ]
cattykid checks.
Crybabee checks.
econ_tim bets [$0.5].
DallasHarley calls [$0.5].
cattykid calls [$0.5].
Crybabee folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
cattykid bets [$1].
econ_tim calls [$1].
DallasHarley calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
cattykid bets [$1].
econ_tim raises [$2].
DallasHarley folds.
cattykid calls [$1].

Again, raising non nut high because I think villain sucks. Of course I just call 3 bet.

Hand 1: I don't like the UTG limp, but with A-2, I can see it. You played the rest of the hand fine. On the river, I'm fine with the cap because many people will call down with some bad low hands.

Hand 2: I think you should be raising preflop to thin the field. You really don't have a low draw, so your only hope is the high. Flop is good. The turn and river are okay. If you don't think he has the boat, I'm fine with it.

Edit - I'm learning O/8 so I figure if I give advice, the experts can rip it apart and I can learn.

hand 1:

fold pre-flop. no counterfeit protection (good one, at least), no suitedness (horrific), two middle dangling cards (even more horrific).

don't bet the flop. no counterfeit protection, flop is two-suited, you have a weak gutshot with no redraws. oh, and a dry nut low sucks (no counterfeit protection). did i mention no counterfeit protection?

oh my god, don't jam that river. bet and call one raise. you got quartered, i'm guessing. weak high, and only nut low--that's recipe for quartering.

hand 2:

fold pre-flop. yes. you have NO decent low draw. this is a game of scooping. wait. this would be marginally playable in the CO or on the button, NOT in EP or MP. fold pre-flop.

don't bet the flop. you have no good draw to the low, and you are drawing to half the pot which isn't even a very strong draw (no redraws if you hit).

fold the turn. you have no low draw, and are possibly drawing to two outs on the high end. you also have high reverse implied odds on the flush draw.

oh man, don't raise that river. please.

(sorry to be so harsh. you know i love you, tim.)

aseem

Hah Aseem. I was reading your guide to O8b while i was playing these hands.

Either my reading comprehension or your advice is bad :wink:

Anyway, I'm just screwing around with the .5/1 O8 game, but someday I'll learn it. Now it is just a break from thousands of hands of limit hold'em. I think I'm better at PLO8, that's what I started at UB with. Nice to be able to take someone's stack when they call your all in with second nuts.

sorry doug, this is wrong.

A-2-x-x is NOT a playable hand in loose games (where both x's are danglers). A-2-x-x where the ace is suited is BARELY playable in late position. A-2-6-8 rainbow is a horrid hand--no counterfeit protection, a very weak possibility of a high draw, horrific middle cards, no suitedness, etc.

you can't raise the river on the first hand. you have only the nut low and a weak high. in a three-way pot, that's just asking to get back only 75% of what you put in. if it was four-way, jamming the river would be a closer decision and would probably be okay, but three-way, you can NOT raise that river.

for the second hand, A-A-x-x with no good low draw, even double-suited, is NOT playable, much less raisable. doug, you don't raise in limit HE to "thin the field", do you? at least, you shouldn't be. same thing in this game. you raise for value. you won't thin the field in a game with 60% of the field seeing the flop.

even if you could thin it, you'd be isolating yourself with hands that have strong low draws, which means you would be fighting for half the pot at best, usually. A-A-x-x and hands only do well from the blinds on good flops (where you hit a set on a VERY ragged board with only one low card, or where you flop a boat/quads).

the flop is also bad for his hand. two low cards on this board, and all he has is a dry pair of aces and a flush draw. he has no good low draw, and he has no redraw if he hits his flush on the turn.

when the turn pairs, he should be check-folding in a flash. this isn't a game where you "think" villian doesn't have a boat, or where you can jam it because villian sucks--it's a game where nut hands or nut-type hands win the pot 95% of the time. he is possibly drawing dead on the turn or drawing to only the two remaining aces in the deck, with no chance at winning the low end.

sorry to rip your post apart.

aseem

i've been meaning to heavily edit it.

one thing i really, REALLY need to emphasize more is that you don't play for half the pot in this game. smash really hammered that into my head.

i've also learned a lot more since writing that guide... more little things like how trips usually suck on the flop, how sets REALLY suck in this game, and just how insanely important redraws are.

oh, and don't play for half the pot in this game.

aseem

OK. But I was right and this cattydid player sucked. Had a king-high flush against my nut flush and had nothing on the hand where i had nut low and straight. I think you need to find worse players to play against.

Edit: BTW, don't mean to diss your guide. I just wasn't following its rules.

Implied tilt odds, baby!

First, stop apologizing.

I left the "thin the field" idea in the quote because this is something that I need clarified. In the O/8 section of SS2, the author talks about betting for one of two reasons - betting for value and betting to thin the field. He says, if I read it correctly (which I may not have done), that with a hand that really only has a chance at a high, you should bet to thin the field, assuming your bet will get players out. Is this not true? I think the reason flop percentages are so high is that nobody raises before the flop. A few of those limpers may fold to a preflop raise.

I may be completly in the wrong, but this is the way that I understood it. The rest of what you said makes sense - and an update to your guide would be fun. Thanks for the analysis, it really helps.

The SS2 write up on O8/B isn't at all geared towards the .5/1 games on the net.

Someone needs to write a good book on low limit O8/b. The internet games you find and the higher limit games are COMPLETELY different.

That being said, Aseem covered both of the hands in good detail. I would have played that AAxx double suited hand on the flop but I would have folded when the board paired.

Even though he specifically mentions games where nobody folds? What games are those?

I think the first hand is marginally playable (realistically only playing for half, may end up with only a quarter assuming you make the low).

Second hand, i've learned the hard way that raising pre-flop is not a good strategy, so I like the limp better than a raise there. However, even though you are double-suited, your low prospects are slim, so I wouldn't get too tied into your hand. When the board paired, a little bell should have been going off in your head to be careful. Sure, you made a flush on the end, and thankfully there is no low, so I think its a bet/call situation. :wink: