Playing in a $20 + $2 2-table NL tourny on Party last night when the following hand came up...

5 people left, top 4 pay, blinds at 150/300, I'm dealt KK on the button

Chip counts:

UTG:4500
UTG +1: 4500
Hero (Button): 3400
SB: 1800
BB: 5800

UTG folds, UTG +1 calls 300, Hero raises 900, sb folds, BB raises 2700, UTG + 1 folds...Hero re-raises all-in, BB calls

Questions/Opinions:

1. Was the pre-flop raise too small? I'm thinking that I'm wanting everyone to fold or 1 caller for heads up...thoughts?

2. Given that I didn't have enough of a hand history to have a legitimate read on the guy...re-raise or fold?

My thoughts:

As expected, play tightened up a bit when down to 5 players. Usually a 3x raise on table with these blinds would get 1 caller at most.

I raised 3x big blind expecting everyone to fold or 1 of the limpers to call so I'm heads up. If I get 1 caller and no A on the flop, I'm pushing all-in

heres my thoughts: with 11 big blinds left, you're all in with KK. end of story. raise is fine, you really would like some action here.

I would have raised to more than 900 pre-flop; maybe around 1,500 to show that I'm serious. That being said, you are heads-up with the second best starting hand. It's all you can ask for.

The BB as the big stack may be trying to capitalize on the fact that you are all on the bubble; good re-raise as You're the big stack if you win this pot

Edit: I misread the op and thought it was folded around to hero on the button. The limper changes everything. Forgive my donkish reading skills. Limping is of course terrible in this situation. Please read my posts as if no one has yet entered the pot. What I say will make sense.

Like justblaze and gobears have said, you want action here. This is a dream scenario because any raise looks like you're on a steal.

In this situation, I might actually make the minimum raise or limp in order to look as weak as possible. I think your raise of 3x BB is too much. Just taking the blinds with KK 5-handed is a small disaster. You hope for someone in the BB to be holding an underpair or something like QJ or Ax thinking they can move you off your hand by coming over the top. No way you're folding to a re-raise here, even if the rock of gibraltar comes at you. If they have AA (which will happen about 2% of the time 5-handed), then oh well. That's poker.

worst.advice.ever.

Letting 8-4 off see a free flop from the big blind and seeing the flop come 884 and then getting your chips all in with KK......thats a disaster

I am an idiot and read the op wrong. Apologies for the following...



Hi. Allow me to defend my "worst.advice.ever" against your stellar argument above.

There are NOT many situations where getting cute with aces or kings is correct, but being on the button with 2 folds to you in a NL tournament is a reasonable candidate. It is a game of traps. And if you're making the same play every time with the same hand (e.g. raising 3-5x bb with KK) no matter what the situation, you probably aren't making as much money as you should with that hand.

Like I said in my earlier post, I would probably raise here, but certainly not because I'm worried about the 84o in the BB flopping a boat. It's because:

A.) Limping looks far too suspicious to good players who are aware of this play. I want to look like I'm on a standard steal.
B.) I don't want to give SB odds to call with a large range here. I want to build a large pot with (ideally) 1 opponent involved.


There is some math involved here which makes your post look somewhat ridiculous that I have done and you maybe have not, so let me help.

odds of flopping a full house (2 distinct ranks)

0.09184% or 1 in 1,088 flops.

odds of flopping 2 pair (2 distinct ranks)

2.02 % or 1 in 50 flops.

KK vs. 2 unders:

85% to 15%.

KK vs. Ax:

72% to 28%

These are calculated risks I'm willing to take. Yes, I'm willing to let someone see a cheap flop with a random hand if I'm sitting on the button with the second best holding possible. This is because in addition to knowing the above odds, I also know that someone holding 84o will flop 1 pair about 29% of the time, and if I am heads-up with that player and have shown no strength, they will often think they have the best hand when they flop said pair.

Is getting cute with aces and kings a play that bears risk? Yes, but the amount of risk goes down dramatically the more short handed your table becomes and the better your position.

There wasn't 2 folds. There was a fold and a limp. 750 in pot and 3.5k in stack, nothing is going to stop me from moving all in there.

your play was fine.

the problem with only raising twice the big blind is that it looks too suspicious. calling will probably lead to something you don't want, a premium hand in a multi-way pot. 3-4 times the bb is a good raise because it looks like a typical raise someone would make in that position, which could easily lead someone to believe their A-x or something of the sort could be the best hand.

With one limper already in there, pre-flop raise needs ot be slightly higher, but you still got what you wanted, which was a re-raise from someone. Push em all-in after that and see what the poker gods bring you. I layed down kings once on the bubble like that, never heard the end of it. :wink:

Perfectly played. Definately a min raise looks suspicious. Best case scenario is you get head up with one caller. Winning blinds and the first limpers $$ is NOT a disater, it is fantastic with your stack.

If you limp you have 2 guaranted opponents, original limper and BB. Not the best scenario w KK.

Limping is horrible in this situation.