I was playing in a REALLY loose 40-80 hold em game at Commerce, and thought that I would share a hand with you.

I wasn't fairing too well in this game, and found myself short stacked, when the following hand came up.

me: utg-10, 10 (both black) I raised pre-flop.
opponents:button, small blind and big blind.

flop:10,2,3 (two diamonds)

sb-check, bb-check, I bet, and button raises. Both blinds fold.
me:re-raise
button:caps it.

I had a VERY good read on what my opponent had, but I will save that for later.

turn: King (diamond)

me:bet
button:call

river: 2 (hearts)

me: bet
opponent:raises

I think that I had approximately $160 at this point left in chips (two big bets)
I was 50/50 on laying the hand down. I knew he didn't have Kings full. I aslo knew that he didn't have a flush. I included information in here, so that it would be easy to eliminate those hands from the way the play developed. In addition, I picked up a HUGE tell on the guy. In the end I called. Mathematically, it would be silly not to.

result:FOUR 2s vs. 10's full(one out in the deck)

So, the real question is. Should I have bet the river?

So, the real question is. Should I have bet the river?


Why wouldn't you three-bet it?

Hey Steve, two questions:

1) Why would you not bet the river with a full boat? Considering it's fairly unlikely that he's got pocket K's since many people would have reraised PF with that, I would be 3-betting that river every day. Seems to me that there are still an awful lot more hands that you have beat that would be calling your reraise than those that beat you.

2) So, what was the tell? I have yet to play in a card room or casino, but I am certain that if I hit quads I'd be shaking like crazy.

If you are absolutely certain that your opponent flopped a set, if he would only call you with 33 but raise you with 22 in the hole, it seems like a bet on the end is a losing proposition. If he would raise with both 33 and 22 on the end, and you called instead of reraising, it would be a break-even situation. Of course, if there is a reasonable chance that he was willing to cap on the flop with a flush draw, then you are probably justified in betting the river.

I wonder, though, if you missed a chance to check raise on the turn if you felt you had a read that he had a set.

Absolutely.

Based on the way you talked about the hand, he's got 22 or 33 in the hole. Simple math dictates its significantly more likely that he's got 33 (3 times more likely, to be exact) than 22. If he calls with 33 and raises with 22, you're winning a bet 3 times and losing 2 bets once.

3-2 = +1

Betting = good

Ice

Oh and dno't post results.

Betting the river isn't close.

Posting the results will have some people thinking it is.

Which in my mind is totally a case for posting the results. I can get worked up when people suggest a bet's not right, and perhaps die of an aneurysm, thereby ending my meaningless existence.

Well, here's the thing. My opponent was a 40-80 player, not a 100-200 player. And yes there is a difference. His call on the button immediately made me think that he had a small pair or a suited connector. On the flop I put him on a set of 2's. That was just my read. When I bet the turn, if he did have the flush, he would have raised. He played a very straight forward game. So, again, I felt that he had pocket 2's or 3's, thus flopping an underset to my set.

When the river hit, I bet quickly. I had eliminated the flush draw, and felt that the chances of him hitting quads were fairly nill. After I bet, he showed his friend behind him his cards, and sort of chuckled. Then he raised. I really DID think about laying the hand down. I know that from a mathematical stand point, you essentially have to call. But, reading skills, even in limit poker can save you and make you a lot of money. Plenty of people out there have tells at all limits.

This really is just one hand out of thousands. But, I tend to remember the hands that I lose, not the ones that I win.

Ah ok.

I can see not three-betting, then.

Did you think the river bet was close at all though?

The river bet was more out of habit then anything else. I couldn't imagine a card in the deck that was going to hurt me. Obviously, things like this do happen. Fortunately they don't happen often. In retrospect, it seems insane not to bet a full house on the river if I'm heads up.

As far as results go. People should know and understand that hands play differently at different limits, and in casinos vs.online. If I was playing online. A lot of raising would have taken place.

I played the hand correctly in my opinion. Under normal circumstances, I should've re-raised the river as well. But that's neither here nor there.

As a side note. Lets not encourage people to display poor behavior online. Whether it be in a forum, or on a poker site. It's bad for poker in general.

As far as results go. People should know and understand that hands play differently at different limits, and in casinos vs.online. If I was playing online. A lot of raising would have taken place.

This plays identically at 1/2 online except for maybe the river.

I don't encorage people to be rude, but I'm not of the opinion it's anyone's job to police it other than moderators, etc.

It's 99% of the time in jest anyway.

You should post some Pan hands

That's pretty crazy man. Isn't showing cards to a friend, a classic Caro tell of strength... Even still I guess the question still remains, how strong does he believe is strong enough? That's always my big problem with tells, ie when I have a strong hand, and someone gives a tell that they have something good too, I find it's always a tough decision.

Very interesting hand story though.

I don't know about online games. But in LA casinos, with limits ranging from 1-2 to 4-8. You will find a minimum of 6-7 people in each hand.

As far as policing goes, it's certainly not my job. But, at the same time I can't stand people who serve no "real" purpose. Young kids who laugh and are obnoxious on poker forums and online poker have the wrong idea about the game. Most people will tell you that this is a growing problem.

I thought your initial response was clever and funny. As are most of your responses.

I don't play pan.

It would be funny if I posted some Chinese Poker hands though. Talk about a long thread. LOL.

Sometimes Caro's Book Of Tells can be quite useful.

I told the guy at the table that the only reason that I'm not reraising was because I was completely conviced at that point that he had quads.

I don't play pan.


I play everytime I'm in LA.

Still no idea what the rules are

LMAO

i would have just check/called if my read was that good.

anyway, i don't think you can fold the river, steve.

the "strength" and chuckle could easily mean 2-3 flopping two pair and rivering a boat, or 3-3.

you're getting 13-to-1 to call, and you only have to be correct less than 8% of the time to call.



the read came after the bet, though.


aseem