Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (7 handed) converter

Hero ($36.05)
UTG ($15.15)
MP1 ($17.6)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($30.6)
Button ($60.48)
SB ($20.1)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ad], [Ah]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
3 folds, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.10) [6h], [2d], [6d] (3 players)
Hero bets $2, Button folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($15.10) [Js] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, CO calls $7.

River: ($43.10) [5s] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Fold to the raise on the flop? I'm leaking WAY TOO DAMN MUCH with big pairs.

if your going to raise the turn raise all in

What value is there in jamming vs minimum raise?

That preflop raise made me throw up in my mouth a little.

How much more should it be?

At least $2. At Party $25 NL, you probably should just go all in preflop.

That's a ridiculous raise compared to the blinds. However, I just got AA in back to back hands and made it 1.50 and 2 pf and netted over $25 on the two hands. I don't think they're paying much attention to how much the raise is.

With two callers ahead of you a 3xBB raise is unfavorable at any limit. It is a good idea to increase your raises pf by 1BB per each caller ahead of you. At these limits I would raise to at least four or five dollars because someone will call. Or you could just go all in.

This definately looks like 7-7, 8-8, 9-9 or 10-10. He's raising on the flop thinking his pp is best and u missed, bets the turn but thinks you might have a J when u raise. Do more than min raise the turn. Make it atleast pot size and consider pushing on the river.

During the hand, I thought the minimum-raise was the cheapest way to know if I was beat. If he has a 6 or 22, he's coming over the top of me. If he calls it, I know I'm good. The fact that I check-raised on the turn makes it unlikely that he'd bet into me on the river with anything less than trips (I would think). Is this putting too much thought into $25NL?

And yeah, he did have 88.

Believe it or not, I actually do play with a lot of the same people on $25NL at Party. Today I went all in preflop with aces and the guy laid down queens and gave me my line from his pokertracker, showing how tight I play at NL.

And he just called it. So why not bet the river to try and get more $$ out of him?

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ad], [Ah]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
3 folds

Flop: ($3.10) [6h], [2d], [6d] (3 players)
Hero bets $2

Turn: ($15.10) [Js] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7

River: ($43.10) [5s] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks. After a check/raise, why would you ever check the river? Did you put your opponent on a 3 4? Weird...

Just my opinion. I wasn't there... :wink:

#1 - I would have raised more preflop. Probably about $2 to $3.

#2 - If you limp in with Aces (which is basically what you did in my opinion) you must be able to consider dropping them to an aggressive raise after the flop. You have no idea what kind of junk you let into the hand.

#3 - Completly ignoring my second point :-) , I would have gone all in on the flop when he reraised you to $6. You did not show any real aggression and he could have been raising you with a high pocket pair. He probably had you on AK or somthing similar.

If he has another 6, more power to him. your aces will probably hold up next time. :-)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ad], [Ah]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
3 folds, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75.
Bet at least $1.50 here...bet a buck with no limpers...more with each limper

Flop: ($3.10) [6h], [2d], [6d] (3 players)
Hero bets $2, CO raises to $6, Button folds, Hero calls $4.

Based on the fact that you let him in cheaply, he could have 6-7 suited...probably not, but that's the problem with letting guys see a cheap flop, they could have anything. With that in mind, I'd come over the top to at least $18 - if he calls, be leary, but also consider he may have mid-high pair, if he raises, it's time to decide if he's bluffing. The hand didn't have to be this tricky at this stage.

Turn: ($15.10) [Js] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero raises to $14, CO calls $7.

If yer gonna check raise, go all-in...I'd have probably come out betting the pot, or more.

River: ($43.10) [5s] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

What would you have done if CO bet? Do you want to make that decision, or would you rather he make that decision?
[/b]

Like I said above, with the check-raise on the turn I know whether or not he's got trips on the river. If I check and he bets, it doesn't seem plausible (to me, anyway) that he's got less than trips. Put yourself in his shoes... if you've got a medium pair and you get check-raised when an overcard hits, are you happy with your hand? Would you check it to a showdown after that, or risk him coming over the top of you yet again? I don't think a medium pair or AJ or anything less than 22 or 6x will raise me on the turn or bet out on the river--that's why I did the minimum check-raise.

All of that aside, I don't think it's the cheapest way to get away from the hand if he does have a six or 22. That was the intent of the question. I needed to raise more pf, but once I see that flop, how do I get away from aces if he does indeed have 6x or 22?

(In response to reasoning on the flop) That's my problem with getting away from AA on a board like this! There is just way too great a chance that he has TT or KK or any pair higher than the board and thinks it's good.

(In response to river) Had he decided to jam, I would have probably mucked my aces (I think he had something like $13 left). If he's got 88-TT, QQ-KK or AJ, what does betting accomplish? Wouldn't you want to see a showdown with those hands, given that you were check-raised on the turn?

Let me rephrase. If I'm full of crap with my check-raise on the turn, what does betting the river accomplish for him? Whether I fold my AK to a bet or turn it faceup hoping to win a showdown, his middle pair is going to win the hand.

Do you think he could fold to a $9 bet or something similar on the river given that he does have one of those hands in the range you gave him above? I don't know the answer to that. I posted a lot of thought on why I minimum check-raised, but that may be too much thought for a $25NL player.

Don't you want him to call with those hands? You have AA, not AK right? And if you would really consider folding if he jammed the river with $13 when there's about $45 in the pot you should stop playing NL. Bet about half of what he has left. It's a value bet he will probably call and you might get him to push over the top and take the rest of his money.

As for those who are giving the guy credit for a 6 y'all need to look at the hand. The raise on the flop is screaming pocket pair or a 6 or 22. The half pot size bet on the turn and then just calling of the checkraise is not a 6 or 22. If he has one of those, he's probably betting more initially on the turn, and pushing all-in to the raise. He more than likely has a pocket pair below the J, and he seems scared of it.

That's rediculous. There's only about $11 in the pot and Hero here has about $35 left. The only hands calling you are 22 and a 6. I like just calling here and then check/raising the turn. Confuses your opponent and gets him to put more money in the pot with the worst hand. A middle pocket pair isn't calling an all-in, but will fire again on the turn when checked to after they raised the flop. You want money, you don't want to drive away hands that will give you more money if you let them.

I believe you are absolutely correct. I was going inside his head with the AK comment--that's most likely what he thought I had, given his action, right?

I'm not posting to defend my play, even if it worked this time. I could EASILY see this line blowing up in my face when he has a 6 or 22.

I want to know how I could play this hand in a way that doesn't leave me committed for most of my stack before I know if he's got a 6 or 22. The only thing I have come up with is a re-raise to $12 on the flop, which may even scare out the kinds of pairs that would raise me, thus weeding out everything BUT a 6 or 22 (AKA kill the profit but bring on the pain).

I think that he thinks you have AJ, because of your check/raise on the J. A bet of about half his stack on the river is a bet he will almost have to call because of the size of the pot.

I do like your line here as reraising the flop usually drives out the middle pairs and leaves you up against only 22 and a 6. Unless you have a read on the player. Just calling and then re-evaluating on the turn is a good idea. His half the pot size bet is somewhat telling of being scared of the J that fell, but just calling your c/r gives it away. I actually don't mind the min raise on the turn, as if he does have a middle pair that's about all he will call. A raise triple the size of his bet and he's probably folding.
EDIT: I like this because even though you're putting more money in the pot to find out, you often have the best hand. the hands he has with a 6 in them he would call a raise with from the CO position are few. The chance that he has a pocket pair here are greater than if he has 22 or a 6.
You want to make money. You don't need to raise for information on the flop. You can already narrow his hands down pretty well.

I just bought pokertracker today, what do you think of these stats?

VP$IP 18.56, PFR 4.10, AF-TOT 2.46

I'm pretty sure the little rock icon it assigned me is accurate

Move

In

Pre

Flop.

You sure trapped him good with the 75cents preflop raise. :!:

Should have been $1.5-2. Anything more there is too big. Did you read the rest of the thread?

Yes. 1.50 isnt nearly enough.

5 is about right for 10-25cent on party unless the table has been abnormally tight by party poker standards.

Huh? There's 60 cents in the pot and you want me to raise to $5? If I'm going to raise $5 in the spot, why not just go all in?

havent read replies..

I think you missplayed it. Infact you played it rather wierd.

Im starting to become a big fan of the all in preflop thing. but I understand some people dont like it so I will give my opinion on the play.

flop either you go all in or you raise big. Here is why I'd rather push

call: you get no info so you are forced to act wierd or weak on the turn (you chose wierd)

fold: isnt there a law against that on the flop? (J/K but only very little situations where you do fold aces on the flop)

raise small: if you get pushed it sucks (you wont only get pushed when youre losing either..thats what makes it suck)

raise big: he calls, now what? the turn becomes an ugly situation to be in.

you see why pushing preflop is possibly better? you avoid dealing w/ lots of fish post flop (plus you will get a caller maybe 1/3 times or so)..

oh and BTW, the PF raise was weak..

Read the rest of the thread.

You should really start reading threads before posting in them. I've already given several reasons raising all in on the flop is absurd. From the options of folding, calling, raising, and pushing, I think pushing is the second worst you could do...aside from folding.

The reason that I dont read the threads before I post is because I have noticed that Im letting other peoples opinions influence my own.

I dont see why pushing preflop is ridiculous,

and I especially dont see why pushing the flop is wrong, I read your posts but I dont agree. In 25nl you will get called w/ 88-kk a lot of times..A LOT!.. hell, Ive been called all in PF by 88 and jj in the same hand. RiseorFall (I think) said something about confusing your opponent..WTF? why do you want to confuse a 25 nl player, they are already confused! push them in, have them call, end of story, play the hand str8 forward against the donkeys and save the tricky theory bullshit for 1-2 NL...please..

Pushing preflop isn't ridiculous, it's yet another way to make money with aces in $25NL. Pushing on that flop is ridiculous. There's a chance (however small) that they'll fold a pair, and that would be a disaster.

I don't consider the line I chose to be "tricky theory." I thought it was the best way to figure out if my rockets were any good.

Edit: Why do you care if your opinion is changed by the thread? The discussion is worthless if everybody is posting their thoughts based on the initial post because you get a lot of echoing and reasoning that doesn't take into account what has been said.

It would be a lot better than raising to 1.50, that's for sure. Raise, and raise big.

Pushing all in after the flop is the worst decision. The only callers you're intimidating out of the pot are ones that are drawing to 2 or less outs. Minimum raise with aces is perfectly fine, and then make another substantial bet on the turn or river.

At these limits, you cant afford to abandon this pot. He may have the 6. He's far more likely to have a pocket pair above sixes. You're getting value on every potential hand that he holds that doesnt include a 6. If he hits one of his two outs on the turn or river, that's poker. He's probably going to call down to the river unimproved anyways, so why push all in now and risk bumping out someone with a 2, or a low pocket pair?

Most of these players view the size of your bet as a reflection of the strength of your hand. Minimum raise doesnt mean that you're trying to get value and string them along. To them, it means that you're not confident enough about your hand to go all in.

I dunno, I find that I learn more if I post then read than If I post after i read. I also get to see where my game is at if the majority opinion is the same as mine.

If you're gonna suck it up on the turn, at least bet the harmless river.

Ice