(I don't have the exact hand history right now, so I've done my best to recreate it w/o the converter)

UTG+1 has been pretty tight, but when he bets, he goes overboard. I've seen him bet $20 into a $7 pot and $25 preflop from MP with nobody in the hand. He hasn't done much lately though.

Empire Poker $100 NL 10-handed ring game

Hero ($91.25)
UTG+1 ($105.75)

Hero is dealt K 3 in SB
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop ($6.00): K K 9
Hero bets $5, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds.

Turn ($16.00): 10

Hero bets $10, UTG+1 raises t35, Hero...

See...this is why I don't generally play Kxos from the SB. I hate these situations enough in the BB.

Honestly, I'd probably reluctantly fold here. The chance of being outkicked or him having the straight or full house is too great.

don't complete the SB with that, and I'm folding to his pot sized raise

Its the Krablar. Go all-in pre-flop.

Get that crap out of my thread and out of the strat section.

What is the rationale of folding getting pot odds of 11-1? How many times am I that big of a dog preflop?

Dude, just kidding around around in my above post, but seriously...

Folding preflop is a good idea. While you might be right about your odds, dont confuse no-limit with limit. In no-limit you want to push a maximum edge at the right time. With K3 offsuit, you pratically need to flop a full house to get that max edge (how often is that gonna happen). Even with the flop you got on this hand, while its great in limit, it can get you in a lot of trouble in no-limit (you kicker is meaningless).

Yeah, that makes sense. I've been playing limit for a while, so I'm trying to shake off the NL rust. Does everyone else agree with this? In a typical 100NL donk table, where do I draw the line for hands I complete with?

Well even in limit I wouldnt complete K3 offsuit in the small blind with that many limpers (unless I play it just for fun because its the krablar). The reason being is that if a single K comes on the flop, with that many limpers someone might have a K as well (and certainly a better kicker). In limit, with a lot of limpers, I like to complete with small cards that have a straight possibility (since I'm hoping all my carda are live).

In no-limit, I dont complete nearly as often as I do in limit.

Hero bets $10, UTG+1 raises t35, Hero...

Folds?

What are the other options?

Try again. You haven't answered my question. Where do I draw the line for hands to complete with in NL?

Smash - I wanted to know if anyone would call or come over the top. Thought there might be one person that does it. (For the record, I did fold)

In my humble opinion, I wouldn't complete with hands where it's too easy to be dominated. AXo, KXo, QXo... not worth it even for the odds.

I'd much rather play offsuit connectors, suited aces, hands with a nut draw.

It's just that if you flop trip K's with K-3, you can't comfortably call an all in with it. I can comfortably call an all-in with a straight with 87o.

I know I'm being simplistic, but not playing an offsuit A, K, Q, with a 9 or less GENERALLY speaking (obviously exceptions to sweet odds) seems like a good place to start, I think.

Well its really game dependent, but I usually dont complete in the small blind with that many more hand that I would normally play otherwise. Usually the games I play in (the micro NLHE games) are so weak, that I just a play really tight (all pairs, Ax suited, face cards suited, suited connectors, and AK AQ KQ offsuit). And usually someone will raise before it ever gets to me in the small blind making my decision easy. If it is limped to me, I'll increase my range to offsuit conneting cards and suited/offsuit one gappers (I'm looking to make the straight).

Try again. You haven't answered my question. Where do I draw the line for hands to complete with in NL?

To complete a SB in a reltively deep stacked game?

Nowhere.

So I should complete with anything? What is the thinking in this? (I don't neccessarily disagree - but you've gotten my curiosity.)

So I should complete with anything? What is the thinking in this?


That in a deep stacked game, if you outplay your oponents postflop (that's the important part), and you can get to a flop cheaply at 1/80 stack size or whatever, it's worth playing hands that you'd only continue with after the flop 1/40th of the time.

Calling raises is a diffrent story.

NL is all about implied odds. They're enormus if you can see a flop cheap and your opponents will pay you off when you hit unlikely nut hands. If this flop was KK3 for instance.

I actually used to fold a out of the small blind a lot, but I've started completing with most suited cards. I still consider K3os to be a really trashy hand. I usually don't complete A3os from there...so K3os is a lot worse. K9os is about the worst offsuit king that I'll complete with (under decently loose cirumstances).

Let's say you actually catch your unlikely two pair with a flop of K J 3 or A K 3. I still don't really feel all that comfortable with my hand at that point.

smash, I think it's less than 1/40 that I'll comfortably continue after the flop with a K3os and a number of limpers. Granted, that's just a guess, and I haven't fully explored the math.