http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/colum...d=2090975&num=4

"And then Hellmuth moves all in for his $13,600 with 17 players left. Everyone folds. He has aces. "That's what I'm known for,'' Hellmuth says. "Getting all the money in when I have the best hand.'' "

What a ****in moron, why push PF here, wouldn't you want someone to call? He just hasn't adjusted, and blames everyone else. Then this happens

"Full Metal Hellmuth. Even before Hellmuth makes a pot-size raise preflop, Martz has his chips in the middle. Hellmuth moves all in with A-7-K-8, ace suited. Heimowitz, also short-stacked, also moves in. Martz calls with K-J-J-9, king suited. The board comes K-7-8-10-J. Martz takes the pot. Hellmuth is out. And out of his mind.

"This (F-bomb) called a full raise with K-J-J-9,'' Hellmuth begins, and you can guess how the monologue went from there. It might've been a world indoor record for F-bombs. "Give him effing congratulations,'' Hellmuth virtually spits, and then kicks a chair to the next table. "


Sure thats only 2 hands, but it shows his issues. He may make great reads, but thats only a part of the game.

huh?

the guy who has K J J 9 is an idiot. thats a pretty horrible call to a pot sized raise in front of you.

also, do you know the blinds or the structure when he pushed with aces?

because i am doubting the blinds were 25-50.

if the table was good and the blinds were high enough, his push was probably good.

hellmuth isn't just some crazy lucky LAG.
he actually does know what he's doing.

then why not a 4-5x BB raise with the AA, turning a good hand into a blind steal, seems counterproductive.

(I'm no Omaha expert)

Because it is unexpected. Because some amateurs would think "He just went all in... if he had a good hand he would have just raised 4-5x the BB. I think he is bluffing." And they'd still call with 10's, J's, K-Q, A-Q. A-K... etc.

At higher stakes games, or when playing against other pro's it's good to mix up your style. I think that is what Phil did there.

because it the blinds were 500-1000 or somethin (which I am guessing they were), there is a great range of hands that will call his all-in.

With blinds at 500-1000, a push was probably not in order. IMO he should have raised 3X preflop and pushed on any flop. 13X BB is too much to push, IMO...

I'm glad that's just your opinion, because no one else agrees. You have to mix up your play if you want to succeed.

Hmm, three people. Yep, I'd say that's everyone. Nice sample, douche.

Ok, let me rephrase, no one else, but fish, will agree. We dont even know what the blinds are you stupid prick.

if the blinds were the hypothetical 500-1000 and he got dealt AA, pushing is better than raising 3x, do you see why?

How can anyone even begin to doubt any play made by Hellmuth? All-in pre-flop with aces by Hellmuth - I'm folding every time. 9 bracelets fellas...NINE! :wink:

But you see, in my post, I said with blinds at 500-1000, a push is not in order. I usually reserve open-pushing preflop to under 10X BB, which is what most people do, I think you'll find. You decided that in a STRATEGY section, instead of disputing my play with some kind of useful information or assessment of the situation, you'd just basically call me an a$shole. That's a great way to dispute poker strategy: slam anyone who disagrees with your so non-fish like strategy. Now fall on a knife.

The "textbook" streategy for pushing PF in NL holdem is 10BB or less. But you have to get out of the kiddie pool.

If you only have 13.5 BB left, and you get dealt aces, you should be without a doubt moving in.

Why?
Because decent to big stacks call with all these hands.

ATs, AJ, AJs, AQ, AQs, AK, AKs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77.

then not to mention all the novice players who will think it is a coin flip and call with any pair.

And not to mention the huge stacks who will call with any ace.

not to mention all the idiots who will call with KQ.

pushing here with aces is good because you usually get called, and even if you don't, the blinds are nice when you are this short.

Don't raise 3x and let AK fold a bad flop.

Make him call as a huge dog preflop, cause he will.

Well no shit most people push PF with under 10BB, that's just common sense. But yes, I did pretty much call you an *******, as I can tell by your avatar.

You don't think there's any validity to the idea that a 3X BB raise might look weak, and you'll get put all in by a weak range of hands? If PH has 13BB left and raises 3BB, AK is surely going to come over the top for the rest of his chips.

If someone had AK, they would call your all in.

Edit-just noticed Absolute's post. Nice post Absolute. :-)

Well there you go. My avatar - another great topic for a poker strategy forum.

Which is exactly what Hellmuth wants, not to mention all the other hands suggested in the thread so far. Brilliant play, lost amongst the weak minded... :wink:

absolutely, but the person who does this will also call an all-in.

so why risk him not doing it?

see what i mean?

heres an analogy.

say you have the opportunity to sleep with one of a group of 10 women. about 85% of the time one of them will sleep with you if you press the "Yes" button. they are all very hot.

But, you can choose the "No" button if you are not content with 85% of the time, and let them choose for yourself.

Now, look in the mirror.
Yes, that's right, I win.

And not a single one in omaha.

AA, good push there.

on the last hand. yes, loose call by the K-J-J-9, but I thought Phil was all about having the best hand when the money goes in. A-K-8-7 doesn't seem to me to be that preflop. Just my opinion, I know I'm wrong.

speaking of omaha. i'm realtively new to it and still learning:

(this is for limit play)
what are some general guidlines for good starting hands?
should i always play a suited ace in a loose game?
etc. etc.

Shoudl i jsut basically follow sklansky's breakdown of suitedness, high card strength, and connectivity

any advice would be great. thanks.

Check out the omaha poker forum. Those 2 threads are still very near the top.

Ok hold on...not pushing with AA here is not horrible. Anybody who says it's just the absolute wrong play needs to get their head out of their ass. Yes, its a good play and Absolute has given several reasons why, but it's not the only right play here. Raising 3-4x PF here and then pushing on the flop is not a bad idea. It may get some callers PF and more money in the pot, and someone may hit something to call you with on the flop. If not, well then you've picked up a nice pot anyway. Absolute is the only one who is explaining any of his opinions, King Austin is just being a ****wad. And otnemem, unless you're Canadian or European...he is your president. I don't like him either, but that doesn't mean he isn't your president. I hate those stupid ass shirts and stickers etc.

Ever heard of the term "figurative?"

TTIDAH

Yep, I was pretty much being an asshole, but people who are like that get no respect out of me, even on topics totally unrelated.

I did however give a reason as to why pushing is a good play, but Absolute did a far greater job, so why not agree with him.

Right. Unless it's a joke, your avatar proves that you are an ignorant, irrational freak. That's why it's relevant.

Not sure if they'll show it on ESPN, but the cameras were around on Day 2 of Event #2 when it got down to 3 tables. I don't remember the exact chip counts at the time, but Phil was short stacked and moved all in with 66 and Liz Leiu calls with KQo.

I read this statement about idiots who call all ins with KQ and even though this is about Omaha, I found it hilarious because Phil's exact words when a Queen hit on the flop were, "What idiot calls off three quarters of their stack with K Q???"

He actually remained pretty calm for a Hellmuth bust...guess he was just warming up.

I'm ignorant and irrational because I (again, figuratively dummy) don't acknowledge any relationship between myself and the piece of shit ******* who's tarnished our country's reputation for the rest of the world? You're either 14 or your mother missed with the coat hanger.

You and 50,000 other wanna be anarchists. Fact is, he's still your president whether or not you like him.

You're the perfect Republican dummy. Let me share a little anecdote:

I come from a very Jewish family. My immediate family's never practiced, but my entire extended family does. I don't associate myself with Judaism, therefore I don't consider myself a Jew (I'm an agnostic). Anyway, I'm sitting at Thanksgiving dinner a few years ago with my 14 year old Jewish cousin. Somehow religion came up. I said, "Ali, you know I"m not Jewish, right?" Her response: "So what are you, atheist?"

You stup1d ****1ng assh0le. How could you possibly infer from my statement that I'm a wannabe anarchist? Since when does being a Democrat (the ones that are at least somewhat concerned with our world image) equate with lawlessness?

People like you should all get together and just die in a group suicide. Complete ****1ng ignorance to everything but your own absurd beliefs. Everything else threatens you, so you want to give it a scary label. Political dissent is now anarchy. Yeah, because I don't like GWB, I guess I must be burning buildings and throwing bricks through windows.

And where did 50,000 come from? You'd be mistaken if you thought that only this many people voted against Bush in the election. But you do seem that stupid.

And again, do I have to quote myself?



I know in actuality he is my president, and I have to live with it, stupid. But in spirit, I think he's a cowboy douchebag who deserves a stiff shovel to his malformed face.

Die already. (And I really do mean that, without an ounce of concern for karma or any other revenge-seeking ethics codes.)

That's funny. Show me where I ever said I was Republican or where I even said I remotely like Bush in any way at all. I hate the man. But I acknowledge that he is my president, as much as I wish he would burn. I hate his stance on about everything, I hate everyone in his cabinet, I even hate the way he looks. but he;s still the president. I'm also sick and ****ing tired of everyone bashing bush and not knowing why. I have reasons. I'll share them in an appropriate area of the forum if you want. You strike me as one of those people who hate him because everyone else does. Maybe not, maybe you have 500 reasons why, good, good for you. He's still your president. Literally and figuratively.

fig·u·ra·tive    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (fgyr--tv) adj.

1. a. Based on or making use of figures of speech; metaphorical: figurative language.
b. Containing many figures of speech; ornate.
2. Represented by a figure or resemblance; symbolic or emblematic.
3. Of or relating to artistic representation by means of animal or human figures.

Wow. You really are an ass who doesn't understand symbolism. You can't argue someone else's figurative logic - didn't you learn this when studying for your GED? And I can give you a million reasons why I don't like Bush, or his entire administration for that matter. But I quit arguing politics with a legion of throwback teenagers who probably don't even vote.

Again, please die.

Please tell me how he is symbolically or emblematically he is not your president. I have scholarships to one of the top universities in the nation...but I have no idea what the hell you are saying.



Keep hoping. It'll happen one day.

You've just made yourself even douchier by announcing your scholarship to one of the top universities in the nation. I want you to know that. And by the way, it's sad that you announce this and then continue to act like what I'm saying is so nonsensical or difficult to understand.

I'll spell it out for you, scholar:

I didn't vote for GWB. I don't feel that he represents me or my interests by any measure, and so symbolically I don't identify with him as the leader of my country. I understand that in actuality he is my president. The message is not to be taken literally. It means, basically, I didn't vote for him, I don't like him, but I guess I have to deal with him.

Got it, Capernicus?

Glad you think so. Honestly, your opinion of me is a big concern of mine. Seriously.

Your picture is not symbolic. It is a picture of Bush that says "Not my president." Forget it I'm tired of this.

Capernicus? Like the little things you serve with lox?

Also I would push the yes button.

Maybe you should change your avitar to this and everyone would be happy since you are no-longer claiming he's not your president:

How's this for symbolism? (The avatar, dummy.) See I know you're not literally a douche, as in an instrument used to cleanse a rank vagina. But figuratively, and in spirit, you are a giant douche.