It seems like most starting out players don't have a solid foundation of basic poker theory. Instead of learning it, they look to a forum/friend to give DEFAULT plays.

Too many posters that are giving "advice" say, "fold the turn"..."i raise 1/3 and fold 2/3"(notice both of these quotes come from respected players on this forum). That's not what people need to hear. They need to hear why you would raise 1/3 and when that 1/3 time is. Or, why you fold the turn and when you would call.

A good exercise, and something alot of so-called "winning players" don't do, is automatically put a player on a range of hands. That should be the FIRST thing you should do. This helps you understand the "what's"and "why's"...and also why some lines are "default" and when you can break away from default plays.

Another one alot of players DON'T do, is think, "what does he think i have".

These are all importantant to the way a hand should be played. They're crucial to playing a hand correctly.

I think all the "default" plays that people are advocating stunt the growth of players without a basic foundation for poker theory.

TOP > SSHE

just a thought

Good Post. The "What does he think I have" Is something that shouldn't really be thought of at full-table ring games with most of the players though, sometimes overthinking is bad... But you're right.

knowledge is your friend, putting people on hands is your friend... Harry Demetriou thinks this is just as important as the fundamental mathmatics part of poker in a PM.

dats da truf. ive been playing alot of heads up and tough 6 man games, so...i feel like i have to use that one alot. It's still good if you are heads up against a thinking player.

Fish don't think, "well, he raised from UTG so he's got to have ____". They think, "I have KJ, I Call. I have a gutshot..."

Yeh.. Now that im back to propping it's much more of "what does he think I have" ... I could MSN this but heres a few things I'm trying to get down

How long does it ussually take 2-4 handed to get a player on a grouping of hands dependent on his Pre-Flop Action?

How long after this are you determining there bluffing capabilities post-flop?

I find it difficult to do this quickly.

it takes a while, but I start analyzing right away. I don't have PT anymore, so paying attention has really become a top priority to me.

What I do, is set a "default" hand range for groups of players (i.e. maniacs, tight/passives) which you should be able to define early on in the game. And as I play more, I add or subtract hands. Same concept for bluffing capabilities.

im not sure how long it takes, though. I play with BCBlack every day and I couldn't tell you his complete raising standards. I have a good idea after a couple months, though.

you suck wrto

What about LOSE? He's a confusing character... I've dropped about 200 to him headsup... That weakness we were talking about a few nights ago.

Got any information on him? I cant put him on a good range.

i hate you

im sorry i didnt mean it

im just bitter i too didnt have a week of drinking and smoking and hooking up with hot chicks

do you want to start a club?

shes only 18...just graduated. ooh la la mon ceri

hey, sign back on to AIM. Im going to a casino i think is near you next month.

Back from the dead.

I agree that TOP>SSHE in terms of really understanding the game. No one would question thta.

That said, I think SSHE should be read first. It's almost impossible for a novice to have any sort of understanding of TOP because of its abstractness. You need concrete examples to hammer that down.

For example: "Player looser when the antes are high, tighter when they're low." Straight out of TOP. But what does "loose" or "tight" mean to a novice? "Loose" could mean every hand, while "tight" means only playing hands with at least one face card.

TOP is more for not necessarily advanced but at least experienced players, who have general ideas of definitions and a solid take on the fundamentals. At least that's my take.

very true. I agree that SSHE should be read first.

I just want players to get away from "default" plays...or, actually, into question themselves on why its default.

I agree with your post... but, at the same time, I think there's some very spirited debate about how to play a hand and why on this forum.

Granted, I disagree with a lot of it, and try not to get too caught up in the tomfoolery (I usually fail, by the way) that results, but there HAVE been 6 page threads about whether 3-betting the river is correct.

Whenever I make a post, I generally try to give a little bit of analysis. "Call, because you're not ahead here enough to beat the hands he's raising with more than half the time." Etc.

But I agree... my poker game went from "casually decent" to "depressingly and achingly okay" when I started deciding what RANGE of hands players could have, and then doing the math.

One thing I've always liked about your posts (when you're not in a pissy mood) is the way you utilize the Socratic method... "Right... and what does that tell us? What do we do with that info??"

Ice

Good stuff wrto.

Perhaps you'll be willing to occasionally detail the range of hands you put the villains on when replying to the typical Strategy posts.


I'd learn a ton.

Hasn't that been going on lately?

It's getting better. Just a suggestion to lead by example, if you will.

Consider it done, I guess WRTO and I have both slacked off in here recently, not that it matters too much.

In every hand analysis we look at in MSN we put the line out there for the hands... I'll try to make it a point to do that in every post as well, good point it's not something that's the norm and it should be.

We need to get past the vague "TAG" "Fish" "LAG" and get more defined when we can.

Absolutely agree there. Excellent point.

I agree. I think getting the habit of posting the villain's stats wouldn't be a bad idea, I'm surprised we don't do it more often already

you mean like SLAA, SLAP, TAP, TAA, LAA, LAP?

just kidding.