cdipierr
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 8:00 AM
I haven't posted a hand in a while, and while I'm 90% sure I know what I should have done, I figured I'd get a checkup here.
Blinds are 150/300, no antes. I have about 5600 entering the hand. Villain has about 9000. Chip average is around 6000. Realize that this tournament plays very shallow.
I've got a reputation as a tight solid player, especially to the villain in this hand. The villain plays much more aggressive than I do.
Preflop:
It's folded to me in MP. I decide to goof around and make it 700 with 7c8c. Villain is directly behind me and calls. Everyone else folds.
Pot: 1850
Flop:
Jc 6c 9s
So, I've flopped the world for this hand essentially. Open ended straight draw, flush draw. With 1850 in the pot, I lead for 1000. Villain thinks for a bit and calls.
Pot: 3850
My stack remaining: 3900
Turn: Ah
I figure on this card that if villain thought I was CBetting the flop, that I actually could have made a hand here. So I lead 1200. Villain again calls.
Pot: 6250
My stack remaining: 2700
River: 2d
So I miss the world. But villain misses any draw he may have been calling with as well. This is a really awkward spot here, so I have no idea what to do. Shoving seems bad. But checking seems bad as well. I decide to donk another 1200 here, with the mindset that there's no way in villain's mind I should be betting if I have air.
I'll post results later. And in thinking about the hand again, I have a different thought process on how I should have played the hand, but I want to hear other thoughts before sharing.
GOCUBSGO
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 8:07 AM
I bet more on the flop and shove the turn. But I'm a donkey
delved
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 11:05 AM
Your stack is < 20BBs.. so I'd probably be folding it in the first place and waiting for a better hand if you have the tight rep.. cause if this guy flops something he might look you down and fold.. its very possible he has QTcc too or Jx
As played yeah, bet slightly more on the flop and shove the turn.. it's not totally out of proportion; your stack size is roughly that of the pot. It's a big semi-bluff, you've still got 15 outs.
I hate seeing the river in the hh here, because now I know that we don't really know what to do if you miss, which is what you set yourself up for. If you're going to bluff it's all in or nothing. 1200 into a 6250 is call-able by any A or J. I'm guessing he likely called this too.. if you're going to bet set yourself up for the next street, not just the one you're on.
SwolyswoND
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 11:25 AM
1400 on the flop, then pot is 4650 on the turn and you'd have 3500 behind. EZ game.
But yeah, fold pre.
cdipierr
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 11:53 AM
Yeah, fold pre. Bottom line is it's a boring live game if you wait for nothing but huge cards and shove. I realize that's the correct play here, but was more curious about what to do after.
And yeah, in retrospect I was kicking myself for not shoving turn. More on the flop helps I guess, but 1k into 1850 isn't horrible I don't think.
SwolyswoND
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 1:16 PM
I have to disagree, 1k into 1850 is indeed horrible, on a board that wet and when you don't particularly even want a call.
donk4life
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 1:31 PM
QUOTE (cdipierr @ Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 1:53 PM)

Yeah, fold pre. Bottom line is it's a boring live game if you wait for nothing but huge cards and shove. I realize that's the correct play here, but was more curious about what to do after.
And yeah, in retrospect I was kicking myself for not shoving turn. More on the flop helps I guess, but 1k into 1850 isn't horrible I don't think.
We either play poker for enjoyment or to make money, and for some cases it's both. If you're bored then shouldn't be playing this tournament at all because it's going to greatly effect how you play.
Mercury69
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 1:59 PM
I think betting more on the flop would have been good. About 1500 or so. I would then be inclined to check/fold the turn, with an eye on shoving the river (unless you folded to villain's turn bet, if any).
cdipierr
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 4:55 PM
QUOTE (donk4life @ Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 1:31 PM)

We either play poker for enjoyment or to make money, and for some cases it's both. If you're bored then shouldn't be playing this tournament at all because it's going to greatly effect how you play.
It was a free tourney, playing for league points. So, good opportunity to try out different tactics from time to time, and not a good place to be bored.
GOCUBSGO
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 8:39 PM
QUOTE (SwolyswoND @ Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 3:16 PM)

I have to disagree, 1k into 1850 is indeed horrible, on a board that wet and when you don't particularly even want a call.
Yeah like I said earlier, we need a bigger flop bet because ideally we want to take this hand down as soon as possible. I don't see how we can do anything other than shove the turn. I hate Hate HATE checking the turn. We are basically just giving the pot away since the villain will almost always bet and we can't call without getting our whole stack in. If we were deeper, then yes check/call/possibly even fold is fine, but not here.
delved
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 9:04 PM
If you're betting the flop, you're shoving the turn. It's that simple.
donk4life
Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 9:43 PM
QUOTE (cdipierr @ Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 6:55 PM)

It was a free tourney, playing for league points. So, good opportunity to try out different tactics from time to time, and not a good place to be bored.
Oh well in that case do whatever you want, you should have just jammed preflop!
cashman
Friday, March 12th, 2010, 6:53 AM
QUOTE (cdipierr @ Thursday, March 11th, 2010, 8:00 AM)

I haven't posted a hand in a while, and while I'm 90% sure I know what I should have done, I figured I'd get a checkup here.
Blinds are 150/300, no antes. I have about 5600 entering the hand. Villain has about 9000. Chip average is around 6000. Realize that this tournament plays very shallow.
I've got a reputation as a tight solid player, especially to the villain in this hand. The villain plays much more aggressive than I do.
Preflop:
It's folded to me in MP. I decide to goof around and make it 700 with 7c8c. Villain is directly behind me and calls. Everyone else folds.
Pot: 1850
Flop:
Jc 6c 9s
So, I've flopped the world for this hand essentially. Open ended straight draw, flush draw. With 1850 in the pot, I lead for 1000. Villain thinks for a bit and calls.
Pot: 3850
My stack remaining: 3900
Turn: Ah
I figure on this card that if villain thought I was CBetting the flop, that I actually could have made a hand here. So I lead 1200. Villain again calls.
Pot: 6250
My stack remaining: 2700
River: 2d
So I miss the world. But villain misses any draw he may have been calling with as well. This is a really awkward spot here, so I have no idea what to do. Shoving seems bad. But checking seems bad as well. I decide to donk another 1200 here, with the mindset that there's no way in villain's mind I should be betting if I have air.
I'll post results later. And in thinking about the hand again, I have a different thought process on how I should have played the hand, but I want to hear other thoughts before sharing.
Very tough spot after you miss on the turn. I think a lot of this depends on your read of the villain. Is his range wide enough that he could have hit this flop hard? When you lead out for 1k your essentially asking for a call from an aggressive player. To me that screams continuation bet. I don't like to put my tournament on the line often, but that was a monster flop for you. If you shove you have a >60% chance of hitting one of your 16 outs. I think this is one of the few times I go ahead and move all in. Use your stack to put the villain to the test after the flop, and if he calls anyway, you have a very good chance to run him down.
TrueAce13
Friday, March 12th, 2010, 9:47 AM
jam/fold PF
Fade2241
Friday, March 12th, 2010, 11:22 AM
Fold pre but as played bet more otf and shove the turn. don't call these hands pf unless you are willing to get your stack in pretty light.
looshle
Friday, March 12th, 2010, 11:29 AM
stop bluffing for 1/3 the pot and stop posting hands for strategy advice when you defend some of your plays with well i was just bored!
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