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Full Version: Value-raise W/ Nuts W/o Redraw In Multi-way Turn, Value Bet Nuts On River
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Omaha Poker
MaxStPolish
So the specs here are are that I take a flop with my button with a marginal holding with a limp. The flop checks around, allowing for my gutshot broadway straight to hit. We get a near PSB and a limp call out of MP and HJ. Normally I will flat these situations (heads up) since I have no redraw and my opponent may be on a freeroll. However, in this situation I felt it was reasonable to place a moderate raise into the pot to tax these two opponents as one of them at least is most likely on a pure FD, or holding the dummy end straight. My raise gets called by MP and HJ folds. The river bricks to make my hand the nuts....but provides four straight cards one gapped. MP checks. I feel I've exposed my hand already with my turn raise, so my mission now becomes extracting value. He obviously isn't checking the nuts to me here, so he's most like got a naked FD that is backing out regardless, or more likely the dummy straight, possibly with a missed FD as well. I elect to fire a 1/4 PSB here, thinking that's about the max that a dummy straight will pay off, even though my line is clearly repping the nuts.

Sound step by step play? Any gaps or missed value possibly? Figured it couldn't hurt to inquire?

PokerStars Game #40463843299: Tournament #244776238, $3.00+$0.30 USD Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (25/50) - 2010/02/28 13:09:44 CT [2010/02/28 14:09:44 ET]
Table '244776238 66' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: un66 (2400 in chips)
Seat 2: stl10x (4290 in chips)
Seat 3: MaxStPolish (3260 in chips)
Seat 4: broke again (1360 in chips)
Seat 5: LoveRooster (2105 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Wulfy321 (3000 in chips)
Seat 7: olddanger (2680 in chips)
Seat 8: Dévil_Snacke (3060 in chips)
Seat 9: 02bushido08 (3000 in chips)
broke again: posts small blind 25
LoveRooster: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MaxStPolish [3d Js 7h Ad]
broke again said, "nh"
Wulfy321: folds
stl10x said, "ty"
olddanger: calls 50
Dévil_Snacke: folds
02bushido08: calls 50
un66: calls 50
stl10x: calls 50
MaxStPolish: calls 50
broke again: calls 25
LoveRooster: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc Ks 5h]
broke again: checks
olddanger: checks
LoveRooster has returned
02bushido08: checks
un66: checks
stl10x: checks
MaxStPolish: checks
*** TURN *** [Qc Ks 5h] [Tc]
broke again: checks
olddanger: checks
02bushido08: bets 250
un66: calls 250
stl10x: folds
MaxStPolish: raises 650 to 900
broke again: folds
olddanger: folds
02bushido08: calls 650
un66: folds
*** RIVER *** [Qc Ks 5h Tc] [9h]
02bushido08: checks
MaxStPolish: bets 600
02bushido08: calls 600
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MaxStPolish: shows [3d Js 7h Ad] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
02bushido08: mucks hand
MaxStPolish collected 3600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3600 | Rake 0
Board [Qc Ks 5h Tc 9h]
Seat 1: un66 folded on the Turn
Seat 2: stl10x folded on the Turn
Seat 3: MaxStPolish (button) showed [3d Js 7h Ad] and won (3600) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 4: broke again (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: LoveRooster (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Wulfy321 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: olddanger folded on the Turn
Seat 8: Dévil_Snacke folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: 02bushido08 mucked [9d Jh 5c Jc]

rrumsey
Poker Stars $3.00+$0.30 Pot Limit Omaha Hi Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 562126
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

MP2: t2400 M = 32
CO: t4290 M = 57.20
Hero (BTN): t3260 M = 43.47
SB: t1360 M = 18.13
BB: t2105 M = 28.07
UTG: t3000 M = 40
UTG+1: t2680 M = 35.73
UTG+2: t3060 M = 40.80
MP1: t3000 M = 40

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN with 3 icon_suit_diamond.gif J icon_suit_spade.gif 7 icon_suit_heart.gif A icon_suit_diamond.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t50, 1 fold, MP1 calls t50, MP2 calls t50, CO calls t50, Hero calls t50, SB calls t25, 1 fold

Flop: (t350) Q icon_suit_club.gif K icon_suit_spade.gif 5 icon_suit_heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t350) T icon_suit_club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets t250, MP2 calls t250, CO folds, Hero raises to t900, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t650, MP2 folds

River: (t2400) 9 icon_suit_heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t600, MP1 calls t600

rrumsey
only possible missed value imo is maybe a stab on the flop, which may have been a little loose so i dont blame you for just checking, and i also bet 1k on the river, not horrible to suck bet it, but he calls a high % anyways, so get close to max value: 1-1.4k on the end
MaxStPolish
QUOTE (rrumsey @ Sunday, February 28th, 2010, 8:12 PM) *
only possible missed value imo is maybe a stab on the flop, which may have been a little loose so i dont blame you for just checking, and i also bet 1k on the river, not horrible to suck bet it, but he calls a high % anyways, so get close to max value: 1-1.4k on the end


duder, it's not value if you bet into a small pot with squadoosh when you have 4 outs to the nuts. Betting here would be awful IMO.
daveharvey
i would find it very hard to bet in this spot
MaxStPolish
QUOTE (daveharvey @ Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010, 5:27 PM) *
i would find it very hard to bet in this spot


What spot?

God I pine for some omaha player(s) on here to help me get better.
nutzzcase
i would bet 1000-1200 on the river. When you raise the turn the only hands that are going to call are big draws and made hands. (and a lot of big draws would involve a jack + flush draw)

EDIT: the lead on the turn makes it more likely that villains has a jack + flush draw
MaxStPolish
QUOTE (nutzzcase @ Thursday, March 4th, 2010, 8:38 PM) *
i would bet 1000-1200 on the river. When you raise the turn the only hands that are going to call are big draws and made hands. (and a lot of big draws would involve a jack + flush draw)

EDIT: the lead on the turn makes it more likely that villains has a jack + flush draw


Good point on the edit.
So we're okay with my thought process for the raise on the turn then?
nutzzcase
QUOTE (MaxStPolish @ Friday, March 5th, 2010, 4:02 PM) *
Good point on the edit.
So we're okay with my thought process for the raise on the turn then?

turn is ok, you missed some value on the river it's all.

EDIT: you don't really need a redraw here just to dodge the flush. (a set is very unlikely so you don't have to get scared if the board pairs on the river)



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