Guy just sat down at what became a very tight table (I was the loosest pf and was running 21 VPIP). It was at the end of a 800 hand session (which may not seem like a lot to some of you but my eyes and brain sure did hurt.) PF is questionable I guess but I was playing a bunch of 5's and 9's VPIP so I started open a bit more in earlier positions with weaker hands. I'll be honest I don't exactly know what the hell I was thinking on the turn. I kinda felt like I was WA/WB and might get bluffed into on the river with a missed flush draw if I checked behind on turn....ballsy. My buddy sitting next to me and I just stared at the screen...when he shoved river.....



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

MP2 ($4.17)
MP3 ($4.19)
CO ($9.88)
Button ($4.49)
SB ($8.43)
BB ($1.70)
UTG ($5.24)
UTG+1 ($5.60)
Hero ($8.06)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[], Q[].
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.15, 2 folds, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold.

Flop: ($0.50) 6[], J[], J[] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.25, MP3 folds, SB calls $0.25.

Turn: ($1) 2[] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1) 5[] (2 players)
SB bets $8.03 (All-In), Hero ?????

Fold imo. People only overbet the nuts in spots like this, especially that big. Overbetting as a bluff wouldn't be terrible, but doing $8 as a bluff into $1 is bad no matter what. If he's shoving for value you're beating like almost none of his range, he probably has a set, but he might have KJ or AJ here too.

He's laying such a horrible price on his bluff that I just don't see it, especially if villain is nitty and you havent seen anything like this.

Well table was nitty...It was the Villain's 2nd or 3rd hand....but I don't think that changes much.

Bet turn.

I don't know what to do with the LOL river bet.
Like Tim said, the price is horrible and most of the J hands in his range beat us.

i actually think you're way good here, sometimes this might be 99.. maybe a lesser jack,,, im wondering what the outcome was though

seriously! bet turn for almost full pot and shove river, you guys wanna fold trip jacks!!!!!!! if he has a better set or a boat, it is a cooler, but in the micros im NEVER folding here and its just that simple. he has j9 and j10 as much as he has jk and ja so stack off here!!!! seriously! oh and your check or turn could have given him a st8! bet turn all day long and i wanna almost bet pot to set a good shove up on river. seriously we never fold here imo.

No offense to anyone, but I feel like a lot of you just want to fold anytime anyone overshoves a river... I feel compelled to ask why.

idk, i mean i get it most people here play tight, but folding this river imo would be nitty not tight

I feel like he could have 55 or 66 here. He may have called the pfr hoping to get lucky and hit the flop and slowplayed to the river, or thought u were bluffing on the flop and just got lucky on the river.

Because overshoves are like never bluffs, we are behind villain's range, and the price is godawful.



Um....no.

@Rumsey

Yes we should bet turn, but not anywhere near full pot. Half pot is probably best. What draws and what made hands are you trying to get value from? What are their odds? Half pot is fine.



wut?

alright... desmoins do you know what he had? a 10 spot on FT says we have him beat.

I like a fold. You have very little invested and like everyone else has said.... this is rarely a bluff.

people talk way tighter than they play, but i prolly fold

"like everyone else has said.... this is rarely a bluff. "

What makes you think he thinks he's bluffing?

The 3 Jacks are so under represented at this point, it wouldnt be quite so difficult for him to think a hand like 2 9s was best

If he thought a hand like 99 was best then he wouldn't bet $8 into a pot of $1

Yet hes willing to lose all value on what is essentially the nuts?

The villian doesn't know we will fold trip jacks. Like i said, we only have 40 cents invested. I would fold and move on to the next hand.

nahg, I agree. But on what basis does he think we have a hand anywhere near that strong?

he doesnt have to base it on anything.. he could hope we had a jack and was trying to slowplay.

I'm not often accused of playing too tight.

625, i know it is a really long shot, but people can and will be total staions in these games, kind of a hope so he learns his lesson to bet turn. plus if he had bet turn like he should have,.. hero would have a call all in for 6.66 with 8.06 in the pot, slightly better if you wanna call.

You guys seriously think he doesn't take good odds and call in the sb pre with j10? 9J? yah we could be beat.
Here are my 2 shoves:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

739,715,328 games 0.005 secs 147,943,065,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.044% 35.91% 13.13% 265630848 97152930.00 { KJs, QJs, J9s+, KJo, QJo, JTo }
Hand 1: 50.956% 37.82% 13.13% 279778620 97152930.00 { QJo }


---

739,715,328 games 0.005 secs 147,943,065,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.044% 35.91% 13.13% 265630848 97152930.00 { KJs, QJs, J9s+, KJo, QJo, JTo }
Hand 1: 50.956% 37.82% 13.13% 279778620 97152930.00 { QJo }


---

678,072,384 games 0.005 secs 135,614,476,800 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.720% 36.56% 14.16% 247924368 95996850.00 { KJs, QJs, JTs, KJo, QJo, JTo }
Hand 1: 49.280% 35.12% 14.16% 238154316 95996850.00 { QJo }


Yes it is bad that villain overshoved, but it is $5 dollar games i have seen villain go broke with middle pairs in these games on ftp! even in 9 maxes.

Unless villain is running like 9/7/50 on my hud im not folding this hand like ever! sorry!

Let me know if the action is rockin on this....I'll post hand history in pokerhand.org

atleast we now know u called.

If des agrees, then yea I'm all for it.

I have no problem with losing, but ill tell ya one thing, if im wrong I need a whole lot of education on how to play micro cash... heh.

it just dosent make sense to me... there are 3 hands we lose to that are resonable...

KJ
AJ
3 4 spades



actually, the way the action played, 3 4 spades maybe our best option

I really just dont see it... but again... maybe im way off.

ya I obviously called. I will tell you before I saw results my initial feeling was I was beat (if that means anything). But I worked from 5am - 3pm that day and didn't get much sleep the night before. I had also spent the entire session trying to work off a 400bb pot I lost to a 9 outer on the river that just made me want to throw up. Let me know what you guys decide and I'll post results.

OK. I didn't know I was getting into this. But OK, it's on.

LOL, there's like a 2% chance desmoines wins this bet.

Results

Shit it to the winner...

learn something new everyday... money on monday... nh

is ur FT handle the same as ur handle on here?


so in a situation like this... passive and then overshove... does the guy always have the nuts in micros?


... That's so bizzare..

forget about the $

the line was so bizzare that there had to be a reason for it.
the reason was ..... underplayed/panicked big hand

that makes sense...


as for the money, that's nice of you but hey, a bet's a bet right? heh.

EDIT: I haven't heard from you, since I haven't I think I just won't look a gift horse in the mouth, say thank you, and be more careful in the future.. gl