Villian bit a weaktight player seems like a real breakeven player to me. I assume the flop bet is standard, now what do i do on the turn ??

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com


saw flop

MP3 ($55.85)
CO ($84.65)
Hero (Button) ($68.85)
SB ($18.95)
BB ($12.75)
UTG ($11.85)
UTG+1 ($59.05)
MP1 ($26.35)
MP2 ($30)



Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, Q
4 folds, MP3 bets $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP3 calls $4

Flop: ($12.75) 4, 8, 10 (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $8, MP3 calls $8

Turn: ($28.75) 6 (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero ?

We created a bad spot for ourselves here.
If he's weak tight a turn shove isn't horribad.
But he's likely got a big hand to keep himself involved past the flop if he's weak tight.
probably .... cf > shove >>>> bf

i wouldnt really see checking behind on the turn to try and hit a big draw as a bad thing here.

if he is weaktight though a double barrel should work here, i would just hate to call off the rest on a draw.

if u bet $25 on turn and he shoves, i cant see hero folding for ur remaining $29 with the pot as big as it would be at that point.

if u bink a spade on river, it would be hard for him to put u on a flush.

,
i hate these spots. I think the flop bet is fine. we have to cbet here, he misses a lot on this board.

but after calling your flop bet we need to slow down. even though we have opened up a nice FD, If this villain is passive, he is sticking around for a reason.

his range would include any set here, or any two over + heart draw.

I'm inclined to take the free card, I dont think he is going anywhere. So lets see what falls on the river and how he proceeds.

If he checks, its a safe Bet to scoop.

Also, keep in mind, any overpairs here aren't going to be leading the river, a marginal 1 pair hand is going to want to get to showdown cheap.

However, if he leads the river on a non heart, I'd be willing to give him credit for a set. He hasnt given you an indication to be much of a bluffer, so Its probably an easy throw away for us if we miss and he fires

OMG! I strongly disagree with all the advice given so far.

We have Q-high with a monster draw, but it's still just Q-high. We have to bet again. If we had a hand like middle pair with turned OESD/FD, then we could think about checking back because we have showdown value if we don't improve.

In this hand, our hand is garbage if the river bricks, but our hand still has good equity, so let's bet here to set up the river shove. The pot is $28 and the villain has $41 remaining. I like a turn shove here.

If the villain had a slightly deeper stack, I'd like the turn bet, followed by the river pot shove on any non-heart river.

I bet turn all day long.

i strongly disagree.

if we are betting into this turn, its as a semi-bluff hoping to take it down right there.

why?

Because if we bet this turn and get called by villain, he have zero FE unless villain was on a FD that misses and doesnt make any bluff attempts.

otherwise we inflate this pot for hands that have us crushed who are just going to -repop us on the turn, force us to call.

we'll see how far we are behind, and we'll hope to get lucky.

any set has us crushed as a 4-1 fav on the turn , and an over pair is close to a 2-1 fav.

That is why I am betting this turn. That is also why I said to just overbet shove here (it's important to note that I play my 2 pair+ hands like this too). He is too shallow to break the bet out amongst the turn and river, so I just shove here to maximize FE with my big draw.

We have 13 outs against a set and 14 or 15 outs against AA/KK (depending on whether or not he has a spade), so we're 31:13 ~ 2.5:1 against beating the set and 30:14 or 29:15 ~ 2:1 against beating AA or KK, so our hand is much better than a "4-1 dog."

When we are deeper, this hand plays a lot differently. I talked about betting the turn to set up the river shove, but more often I do check back the turn. In this case, we aren't deep enough to bet turn/shove river and our hand has good equity against any opponent's hand, so with the added FE of a turn overbet shove, I like this choice best.

yea my bad about the 4-1. Im tired.

But, this play is still not giving any credit to our villains image/range.

I agree about our effective stack sizes, which is a problem.

meh, to be honest. i'm good with either or in this spot.


Its the dynamics of how this hand has played out vs a typical tight passive player that i dont like.

I want to start narrowing his range and his betting patterns to be,

villain cbets this flop with over pair, check/calls with monster or draw. and check/folds all missed hands.


so with that being said, i lean towards him having a monster, or a draw. His draw is most certainly going to be Ace high


so with that conclusion...

i'm going to drink a redbull and forget this entire thread

I think it's spewy to 3bet a weak-tight player with Q9s, anyone else?

we will be taking this down on the flop often.

weak tight is going to play this like an open book.

c/f when they miss, bet if they hit a piece.

c/raise or c/call if they flop biggens.

so its easy to play in position post flop.

preflop is kind of spewish but i fire a second barrel all day

it's only spewy if villain's a weak-tight calling station - then we want to 3bet wider for value not as a bluff.

but if he's your typical weak tight nit who plays fit/fold then q9s is fine here

Villain is going to fold a lot more than we need him to to make a turn bet profitable.

I'm fine with 3b preflop against a weak-tight raiser. I would check back turn after getting flatted on the flop. Shoving is definitely an option if we think he may fold over or his flush draw.

What's our image on this table? If hero has been laggy, he may float the flop with a wider range, in which I think I'd shove the turn to let him know we're not kidding around.

I like checking, although shoving is not a bad second alternative. Betting out without shoving would just be terrible.

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 401250
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $10.35
UTG+1: $12.55
MP1: $7.60
MP2: $11.65
CO: $10.70
Hero (BTN): $11.20
SB: $10.65
BB: $4.90

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 6 8
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 4 T 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.65) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.30, BB calls $1.30

River: ($4.25) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Final Pot: $4.25
Hero shows 6 8 (high card Queen - Ten+Nine+Eight kicker)
BB shows 7 6 (high card Queen)
Hero wins $4.05
(Rake: $0.20)

so did this hand play itself out...

how was the line?


and 8 high rocks.

why are you posting this inside another thread??


anyways. With villains stack size, I love the way you played this hand until the river. You set it up perfectly for a river shove, which vs any competent player, would see that you're extracting the most value from them up for a pot sized river shove..

But because of the stakes, Your villain's probably arent thinking that way.

regardless, whats $2.80 anyways? just shove. (kidding... but i'd still shove)

i posted this in this thread because of the title, i picked up a big draw on the turn and instead of checking to see if i hit.. i bet it and then check when i missed..lol

although it wasnt 3 bet

It's fun to win with 8-high, but as Royal pointed out, you really need to be shoving that river. The rest of the hand looks fine to me.

Villian only had a half pot bet left in this stack, i dont think he is folding a lot if he has any pair, and it is unlikely he has a draw since the flop was T 4 5 RB. I dont mind checking the river.

I do see your point.. especially the limits - a lot of people will call off 28bb's just because its only 28bb's... But...

our line is strong. (the argument can be made that we beat the OESD with 8 high, so just check)

but at the same time. I think if we view this hand from Villain, and villain holds a number of small PP's or TP, our continued aggression and 3rd barrel would win this pot.


erase all the hand details, and pretend you're readin this hand from villain. Villain holds J,10.

Villain check/calls flop
villain check/calls turn
villain checks the river and his opponent shoves.. What advice are you giving villain?

My advice would be to fold, but that doesn't matter since villian as you said could be willing to call off those 28bb's that's the problem. It really depends on whether villian is stationy or not.

Yeah, I missed that -- For some reason, I thought the villain had exactly one PSB left. I probably glanced at his original stack size versus the river pot size when I made the comment.