This is like my 15th hand at the table, villain is an unknown, 0/0 over 15 hands. I searched him though and he's 6 tabling 1/2.

A pack of feral cows chewed their cuds for .0043 seconds to convert this hand
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $1/$2 ante $0.30 - 6 players

BB: $130.45
UTG: $460.55
UTG+1: $241.40
CO: $411.70 (Hero)
Button: $400.00
SB: $208.10

Preflop: ($4.80) Hero is CO with (6 players)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $6, Hero calls $6, Button raises to $26, 3 folds, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($62.80) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $40, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($142.80) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $80, Hero calls $80

River: ($302.80) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $253.70, and is all in

I maybe fold pre. Probably fold on the turn and def. fold on the river. If he is 6 tabling then there is little to no chance he is three barreling here.

tempted to call river because he has to show up w/aa/kk/tt and uh not likely

I def fold pre to his 3-bet, though...OOP and deep w/ a hand that has horrible RIO. could you explain why you had called? it seems like a pretty big mistake actually considering you don't know much about villain, and what you do know of him strikes you as a multitabling hudbot.

with no reads on villain, i'm folding preflop.

and then as played, i'm folding the turn.

we're only beating QQ, JJ AJ or chopping with AQ. so i'm not digging the odds.

and with no reads its hard to say how he might play QQ on that board. would he purposely turn it into a bluff thinking you have exactly what you have?

its almost always a fold on the turn.

i fold pre or isolate 3 bet based on what i know about UTG, fold to his 3 bet and or 4 bet pre we don't wanna play this hand OOP

fold turn, def fold river we are just so crushed here, and if he is multitabling then his preflop action is even more strong and we could have folded pre

goal of multitablers is to probe and play small, they tend to play very TAG

Easy fold pre

lol wat, 200 deep against a player who is squeezing almost any two cards here? You can definitely fold pre, but it isn't 100% the best move by any stretch of the imagination. His squeeze range that deep in position includes a ton of worse hands, ainec. You can definitely call knowing that you can just c/c down and let him barrel into you. 6 tabling is far from a 'hudbot' too, easily few enough tables to be making some sort of move.

You know you really can't use that stuff as a tell at 200nl. These answers are so robotic and focusing on absolutely nothing of substance. "Oh no he 6 tables he absolutely must be playing small ball." LOL. The things I'm focusing on in this hand are that he sized turn really small and there is only one combo remaining of AA/KK.

why would you assume that? I mean you said you have no reads. You can assume he mght squeeze, but not really good enough reason to call.

raise or fold then. flatting leaves us in the middle of a busy street with no way out.

I'll admit I am not very good at 200nl however...

After UTG folds can we 4bet/fold to a shove here? Seems to me that if he is squeezing he folds and if he has it then he tells us by putting in a 5th bet. I don't know what the EV comes out to be but it definitely plays easier being out of position with (to me) one of the worsts hand to play out of position with.

Well given he's 6 tabling I have to assume he's a reg who has some idea what he's doing, because he hasn't moved down to 100nl yet. And as a reg this is a really good spot to squeeze when you're deep and have position. He can definitely have better hands than mine, but he also definitely have worse. By raising I fold out every single hand I beat and get called/shoved on by every hand I lose to. There isn't a hand I can get value from except for maybe maybe maybe AJ. Raising here is only raising 'to find out where you're at' which is a big big mistake

We're 200 deep, I really don't like 4betting, and again this is 4betting to find our where we're at. Why would we want to backraise when we rep really really really narrow and they can play perfect IP? This is raising 'to find out where we're at' again, and we're also not considering what possible hand we can rep by backraising.

Yah makes sense...I was more or less asking and not so much assuming that this was an optimal play.

I was assuming since UTG opened we were not repping anything... we were more or less turning our hand face up and declaring "I think you are full of shit." but I really didn't think that far ahead...it's an easy shove for Villain with ATC.


edit: wow....FCP didn't edit out my "shit"

Yeah it's a relatively sexy shove by him if he does that. Of course I will flat aces sometimes in that spot if I know that somebody behind me is really squeeze happy, but the person behind me doesn't know that and I have no info on the person behind me either; except I feel that when he does squeeze it's often as a bluff. And sometimes he might even flat the 4bet which would make me cry

I think you mean it would make you triple barrel bluff, unless you hit, then you'd c/c.

Also I don't think his sizing is a "tell" or w/e. I think he sized everything up pretty well, even from value stand point, maybe liek $88 on turn instead to make river slightly smaller, but he's not too worried about you flatting him OOP with suited connectors or something. So if he has AK/AA/KK he needs to try and get you to call with your 1 pair holdings and just pray you decide to look him up.

How bad does board have to come after you flop top pair for you to fold?

Yep, that's the one



Well I think I mentioned it before, but I still think it's too small and probably more bluffy than say $90, which makes a river shove more sexy. The shove on the river seemed way closer to pot at the time too. I assume because rake was taken out or I can't read or something.

And what is 'folding top pair'? I've never heard of it. Is that where you click call even faster than normal?

dude, you're talking backwards.

UTG folds, you 4bet, villain folds.. you scoop pot = sweet.

are you really trying to get cute with AQ OOP vs an unknown?? seriously? you need to re-examine this. (and the excuse that his squeeze range is wide, is silly. putting him on a wide range doesnt help us with EV)

It isn't always, but it's normally an indication. I have met the odd multitabling fish, who are gifts from heaven. And I am certainly not talking backwards.

We don't credibly rep any hands by 4betting, BTN folds sometimes sure, but they also flat or 5bet sometimes too because I don't rep much and people hate to fold. So I am losing all value with AQ and turning it into a bluff. Our EV is higher not 4betting in my mind, and I think that's relatively clear that in terms of EV it's probably fold/flat (both close and stylistic a lot) >>>>> 4bet.

if he flats your 4bet "because people dontlike to fold" you can still assign the same range to villain as you were doing previously by flatting his "squeeze"

You're not turning it into a bluff, because like you said. a lot of people flat here, but what you are doing is folding to a 5bet because we're almost certainly way behind.

There are optimal lines for this hand, and the way you played it was none. Thats my 2 cents. You are blindly throwing money into this pot with level 2 thinking.

you've assigned him a wide range because he oculd have been executing a squeeze. and now you're call stationing your way to a showdown hoping he'll turn over the wide range you are praying for.

thats all this hand is.

i also stand by my previous notion of folding pf

I really don't understand what you're trying to say here Royal. You're working from at least as many blind assumptions as I am.

I suggested, fold pf. but as played. fold the turn.


then you said, folding pf was pointless, because "we're 200bbs deep and this is almost always a squeeze"

I personally dont like the situation, because i have no control of the hand really.


When i play NL cash, i look to have control of every pot i enter. Maybe i'm missing something about this hand.

do you want to go through your indepth thought process? there has to be more to it than what you've used as reasoning for the call stationing.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say You called the river shove and villain had air.

which makes your point of this being a squeeze a valid reason to why you should do what you did... i dunno.

Dave i see you reading.

weigh in please i'd like to know your opinions.

It's a fold preflop for me. I haven't played with an ante or really 6-max much, but I think the pressure to play fast preflop by that structure is offset by somewhat deep stacks. As played, we're hoping to make top pair good kicker, we make it, and our path is not clear.

Meh, our path is pretty clear. If you call pf here you're felting your top pair hand unless it comes like 4 straight or 4 flush. You just c/c and let him have rope, I don't love the pf call, but I don't play on Tilt and maybe the games are much more aggro than on AP. My default would not be to assume button would squeeze here. I also don't think it's a great spot to squeeze, UTG+1 has a pretty strong range. I dunno I'm vvvv passive pf.

They are, well I don't know about msnl but 200nl is certainly way different across the two sites. And I think it's a good squeeze spot because unless he 4bets you can just barrel UTG+1 off most hands on almost any board. Unless they're a station like me.

But yeah results, for anyone who cares, was a tanked and realised there weren't many value combos of hands here, like 12 or something, so I called and he flipped over Q9o

so since you're kinda being results based, I can argue the idea of raising pf wins us this pot uncontested.

if we come over the top to say 66. do you really see him flatting with Q9o?

I think vs. a 0/0 6 tabling villain we know nothing about, calling a 13BB PFR w AQ off is a recipe for disaster.

I'm glad that we're playing one street poker. Considering any other decisions made would definitely be a waste of energy.

I dont get it.

No one in this thread thinks your call with AQo OOP is good, and you've adjusted all your info on the count that its results based.

If this guy shows up with AK here are you posting this hand?

The idea that you can pin point a player because hes a reg at a certain limit on a certain site is ridiculous.

I play AK the exact same way this guy squeezed you with Q9o.

I think you're the one playing 1 street poker.

you fail to realize that the reason we are against calling the raise is because we're thinking about future streets

This hand is just horrible. face it. You call stationed your way down.


You give no reason for calling the turn, then you give analysis that only 1 combo of AA KK is left.. but thats on the river.

if the river is a 2c are you c/folding?

Can I nominate this for thread of the year?

And on similarily weirdly played pots, I'll share this story: 6 handed home game, everyone limps, big blind raises to 25 big blinds. He gets one customer and shoves 75 big blinds into the pot of 58 blinds on 368 rainbow board. The other guy folds and the big blind proudly turns over 33. He still insists that it was "the right play", because he won a 58 big blind pot with it...

As for the hand - it's a fold pre. Check-calling off your whole stack with the hunch that the other guy is bluffing is a pretty bad action plan. Good for you that it worked out.

hahaha thats so perfect for this thread

i swear i've said "what" like 15x while reading this

LOL

Krup thats bad.


if you cant see how this hand is a spew more often than not, I'm not sure what else to do but quote smash

Do you see why?

just cause i quoted his picture doesn't mean i was agreeing with him lol

i fold preflop a ton but i also 3-bet UTG+1s raise quite a bit. i don't necessarily think his range is "very strong" for 6M like tskillz said.

i rarely station down three streets like this because rarely do we see a 4BB which may be the reason he posted this in the first place.

Glorified brag post maybe? Thats what it certainly seems like to me now.

Agreed. I would say taking this line will result in losing this situation 9 out of 10 times, and he happened upon the one time the guy had air. If you have no reads on a villian at all, assuming he squeezes pf and bluffs every street 200bb deep (and yes, you can only beat a bluff here), is very very bad.

Just to be clear to (Jaoti - babylondonks)

I'm not faulting the idea, or the approach. And i like his final assessment on the amount of combo's shove this river.

But to get there was a fluke.

If Jaoti wants to weigh in on his river thought process if the river bricks "2 of clubs" for example.

what is the reasoning to call a shove?

wait JaoTai is babylondonks? huh?

yes

yes, I don't think he can log in to his other name anymore.

He lost his password or something like two weeks ago and went back to using the name before he was babylondonkeys

lol ok i was just really confused cause jaotai was an older account plus he seemed really hostile and i don't remember babylon like that.

Babylon's a dick.

Agreed.

Yeah I wrote out a really long reply on Monday and as I was about to finish my laptop died and I haven't had any access to a pc since then. I forget what stance I really had on this hand, because the pre-flop call is questionable, but a spot that I think is somewhat +ev in the right spot (this probably not being one of them). I think the more interesting decisions are postflop though and I guess the object of this hand was to make sure you always consider ranges and possibilities rather than just making a decision; whether or not it's correct in this case seems to be the point of contention. But still something to consider nevertheless.


Just kidding, it's a glorified brag post.

I played a similar hand with QQ today He didn't triple barrel the river though, which was unfortunate.

FYP, if he barreled the river you would have found a way to fold

Post the HH imo

v1.09Feral Cow Poker Hand Converter
Cereus No Limit Hold'em $1/$2 - 6 players

Button PENGUINS25: $408.35
SB PAULALLAN: $265.70
BB UPAY4NZ: $106.35
UTG DABRONXBOMBR: $249.40
UTG+1 RAOUL_DUKE1: $224.19
CO Hero: $379.00

Preflop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with : : (6 players)
DABRONXBOMBR folds, RAOUL_DUKE1 calls $2, Hero raises to $10, PENGUINS25 raises to $34, 3 folds, Hero calls $24

Flop: ($73.00) : : : (2 players)
Hero checks, PENGUINS25 bets $50, Hero calls $50

Turn: ($173.00) : (2 players)
Hero checks, PENGUINS25 bets $120, Hero calls $120

River: ($413.00) : (2 players)
Hero checks, PENGUINS25 checks

Hero showed : :, Two Pair, queens and nines
Hero won $409.50
(Rake: $3)

Not that interesting... he had A8hh