Ok, this is a hand from live play, at a casino thursday night/fri mor. I haven't played poker in about 1 year, and even rarely in the past 5 years. I wanted the free parking since i was staying at the hotel across the street, and they only offered valet. I believe the table sees me as tight agressive, at this point, none of my hands have been shown, and I've only been involved in 3 hands (1 of them bluffs), and haven't shown any of my cards in any. Here is the history with villain, the game is $2-5 no limit, $100 min - $300 max. I sat with $200:

a)My 3rd hand at table, i pick up 77. I raise in the cutoff to $20, villain calls in big blind. Flop is 6 8 9 rainbow. Villain leds out for $40, i raise all in $175, he folds.

b)45 min later, villain raises all in against this lady, who clearly doesnt play a lot of poker. Board reads KKx, with two hearts. She calls with AA, and villains heart draw doesnt get there. He starts complaining how she shouldn't call, etc. Anyways, she doesnt say anything. A few hands later, he notices she took off 2 black $100 chips off table and tells here her she can't do that and that "it's my money and I'm coming for it." She tells him to basically f* off (not in those words) and gets up from the table. Immediately everyone gets on his case (in a friendly way) for chasing her off the table.

c)About 20 min later, villain tries to bluff another player with his busted open ended straight draw. He doesnt realize that the other play has a black $100 chip behind his $40 stack. So the villain $40 bet is immediately called by top pair. Villain then tells other play to make sure all his chips are visible.

This hand comes up right after (i'm sorry if it's hard to read):

UTG + 2 calls $5

Cutoff calls $5

Button (hero) calls $5 with 8 10

Big Blind (villain) raises to $20

UTG + 2 calls $20

Cutoff calls $20

Button calls $20

FLOP

7 7 2

Big blind checks

UTG + 2 checks

Cutoff checks

Button checks (should I have bet?)

TURN

7 7 2 10

Big blind goes all-in immediately, for about $180

UTG + 2 folds

Cutoff folds

Button??

At this point, I have about $230, so I have him covered. I thought about it for awhile....I figure he must've been on tilt. He clearly was pissed about the events in the past hour or so....any thoughts?

On another note, I left after about 3 hrs. I was a $325 winner, due to a big pot later in the session that I won with QQ. I couldn't stay long since my wife had been waiting for me back at the hotel.

Fold, imo

The pot was 80, he shoved 180, so you need to call 180 into 260, not a good situation.

Live poker, especially 2-5 300max (shorter stacks), is all about value betting. No need for thin/big call downs.

I don't see any 7s in his range to raise from the BB, but he could have JJ/QQ... or if he has 87/A7 and was trying to c/r the flop. fish love to slow-play... He could have a better T.

It's late, so I'm sorry for this making no sense, but fold.

It's hard for me to put him on a 7, since he raised from the BB before the flop. I know he was steaming, but unless it was pocket 7s, then i doubt he has one. I'm thinking either a overpair or some ak type hand that missed.

A7s? I'd say that's in his bet range.

instafold

he doesn't need a 7 to shove here...any overpair will do. If you're behind then you're REALLY behind drawing dead to a a 10.

In general give your opponent credit when he's shoving into 3 other players...good laydown

thats really the one thing that made me think he wasn't bluffing...had it been just me, i think i would've called. i find it amazing that i keep thinking about this hand...and i barely play poker anymore..lol. but i do read alot, and watch tv...boy do i want to start playing again. wife is against it though.

really? is a7 suited a normal big blind raising hand with 3 other callers these days (i really wouldn't know)? and he raised only to 20, so he wasn't trying to get anyone to fold..actually, it now seems possible if he wanted to build a pot i guess....

insta fold very very easy

You might be onto something, it's live play so opening ranges are probably tighter. He's still a fish so we can't be sure, but I think that A7s might

The question is, should you play top pair here and the answer to that is; No, you should not.

This sounds like Niagara?

the whole idea of playing a game like 2-5NL with a table max of 300 is ridiculous.

so ridiculous that I'd almost say. Call the all in. But i wont.


here is some advice for this hand.

From the button with 2 limps i'd be making a raise here like 100% of the time.

from there, the entire hand plays differently.

also note: when playing a game with low buyins shortstacks etc.. you really cant afford to just limp into pots hoping to hit hands.

Play TAG and pick on deeper stacks.

I wouldnt let this go either.

If i see someone taking more than 20 dollars worth of chips off the table, i'll make it known to everyone including the dealer. You shouldnt stand for that shit.

Yes, it was Fallsview. And I dont fault him for telling her to put the chips back, but it's the way he was doing it. He was abusive, and most of all, she left. I didnt add that in her response she said it was her first time playing....so u know she was definitely good for the game.

Anyways, I did fold. But i'm thinking if he had the overpair or 7, he probably would have bet the pot or less. I think he was a competent player having a bad day....

thanks for all the replies. maybe in a year or so i'll post my next hand that i play...lol.

seriously tho,

IMO this hand shouldnt be about folding or calling with Top pair. I see your button limp as a leak. Raising on the button here completely changes the way this hand goes down.

In this game, with the table dynamics (from what we gather) my lines are as follows:

If you're TAG, i'm leaning towards

raise<fold<<<limp

Interesting...but what would raising pre-flop accomplish? How much should i have raised? And why am I raising on the button with two previous callers, with a very marginal hand that will miss most of the time?

sorry if these are obvious questions that i should know the answers to, but i really don't. poker iq is very low, lol..

Ok. These questions are fine.. I'll try and answer to best as i can. (i might even cover some points that you're already aware of)


Now to be a little obvious..We are trying to build, control and win as many pots that we enter, as we can. How do we use skill to do this??


So. in any game of poker. position is key. along with your cards, and stack.

But position at a poker table is a huge advantage. (its the reason why Annette_15 won a tournament without looking at her cards. she peeked once)



When raising, we're hoping to accomplish a few things.. We want to thin the crowd. Going to a flop 2 or 3 handed. is much more beneficial than going to a flop 5 or 6 handed.

With 5 or 6 players in a hand, there is a higher chance someone has a really good hand. Which means winning with top pair is more rare.


Another reason we raise is to disguise our hand. No one knows you are raisng with 8,10s. You could have aces for all they know. You want to keep people guessing. Its how you can steal pots, and also how you can get paid off when you have a made hand.


Raising in a spot like this also helps us determine what other players might have. As you play, you start to type cast players. Now in your current example, you have 2 limpers.

lets say for theory sake, those limpers are ok players.. slightly tight passive.. They limp and you raise to 25.. the blinds fold and the limpers call.

You should start to put them on hands... What types of hands are these amateurs playing? Well we know its good enough to call a raise. but not good enough for them to initially raise. .or re-raise for that matter.

Things like small pocket pairs. suited connectors. maybe a weak ace..(the more info you know about the type of player, the more narrow you can make this already) so immediately, we start to narrow their range.


To go even further in this theory, These limpers still have no clue what you're raising with. So lets say the flop comes down A,7,2... its goes check/check.

Here is a perfect flop for your disguised hand. You can safely make a continuation bet here and represent the Ace. especially since you raised preflop.

This also holds true when you flop something good. Your hand of 10,8 could look like 1 over pair. or even a missed AK if you play it correctly.



Now since we started dabbling with the flop.. My first reason to raise.. beiing position, comes in play again. So right now we have built the pot up a bit by raising preflop. we are controlling the hand by being the aggressor and having position. Now we look to see how we will win this pot we built.

With position on the other two players, and the fact that we were the preflop aggressor, we have the opportunity to watch to see what these players will do first.
We also have a much greater amount of control over the pot than the other two players. We want to be careful NOT to inflate the pot. When there are multiple players in a big pot, or we make large lead out bets that get raised, we risk inflating the pot to the point where everyone involved cant fold

This is dangerous if we only hold mediocre hands up against several big draws etc...

Obviously if we flop the nuts, we dont care what happens, but the higher % of the time, we're going to miss or flop a mediocre hand at best.



How much to raise? Keep in mind, I'd only raise if stacks were deep enough. if one of your limpers has 100 dollars and they call your preflop raise. There is a good chance they are ready to invest their stack on this hand.
Also, there is such a thing as implied odds. This is what you could potentially win from the other players if you catch your gin.

Implied odds work well for set mining when you put a TAG player on a big pocket pair.. example.

i have 500, Jim has 600. he raises to 30. i have 8,8.. i narrow his range to a big PP or big Ace.. My odds to flop a set are 8-1. i have to factor in the current pot odds. and the implied odds. If i hit my set, will Jim pay me off or is he capable of throwing away AA... etc..

In this particular game, you have a bb of 5 dollars.. and stacks of only 200-300.. so lets say an average of 35-50 big blinds.
This is the main reason i dont like this setup. I never play with less than 100bb's.

The correct amount to raise depends on the table dynamics, your image, and your opponents style.


To sum up, we arent raising with 10,8... we are raising with position to gain control of the pot and build information for our post flop play.

I'd also like to add, if you''re not comfortable with post flop play. or outplaying your opponents, you should limit your game to playing Tight and aggressive.

stay out of these situations by just folding these hands.

anyways
hope this helps

Wow, thanks for taking the time. It seems like really basic things i should know, but it's amazing what you overlook when someone doesnt point out the obvious to you...looking back, a raise would have been better..