Meh.

Hey running backs, please don't get injured.

Defense, please learn how to tackle a running back. This goes for you too Richard Seymour. Just shutup and put on your jersey.

Coach, try not to punch the other coaches.

Al Davis.....

Broncos already ruined my Sunday.

How is it that the Raiders have gone through like 4 coaching staffs in 4 years and they have the same shitty end of game prevent defense.

This seriously ruins my whole week.

end of that game =

Awful call to end the first half. Ugly.

yeah wtf was that all about lol. They even reviewed it and f'ed it up.

Looked like the correct call to me, after seeing the exact replay they used to determine it wasn't a TD. Maybe the Raider Nation can find some more excuses when they come into Arrowhead and fall to 0-2.

lol just saw this, put a smile on my face. Jamarcus goes 7 for 24 and Chiefs still lose.

WORST QB EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gdfkjdsljdsfljfdsjdfsp

ya. Jamarcus russell is not a NFL QB.

The raiders are just a laughing stock as it is.....but this team is never going to contend until this is corrected. I am amazed by raiders fans. You guys are seriously tough as nails. I can't stand this team, and they have absolutely nothing to do with my NFC north interests. It would be easier to be a lions fan than a raiders fan. Just think about that statement. So big ups to you guys for sticking with it.

At least he can beat the Chiefs, man they suck.

Who do you root for? How is it easier being a Lions fan?

Also, its not like the Raiders have been bad forever. You can't abandon your team when they are going through a rough patch. There are a lot of bright spots especially on the defense to root for. I understand they are bad.

It's just sports.... I'm not going to lose sleep at night if the Raiders are bad for the next 10 years. Disappointed yes, it is more fun when they are winning, but its just sports.

Front office stuff does piss me off though, like how they wouldn't let Rich Gannon on the field because of stuff he has said about the team in the announcing booth. That is complete BS. Also, their hiring of coaches is horrible. Their draft picks are always weird, Al Davis sucks, etc. But whatever, I'm not going to become a Charger fan or anything.

I'm not sure. I gave serious consideration to abandoning the Royals this season after 20 years of complete suckiness. If you are a big enough sports fan (you probably have bigger issues anyway) it can mess with you to be the laughing stock of the league. Every year hopes get high, and then crushed, it sucks.

I see your point. After rooting for a team for 20 years how can you just pick another team to root for though? You are stuck with them.

Maybe Al Davis will get the swine flu.

I know you can't abandon your team. I'm a cubs fan. I vomit in my mouth year after year swearing them off forever, and I'm there in april year after year loving it. It just with the raiders Al Davis is just horrible. And he's not going anywhere, ever. He'll literally live 20 more years and never relinquish control of the team. I mean I loathe Jim Hendry (Cubs GM) for all his moronic decisions, and pray that he'll get canned under the new ownership, but even then at least he's not the judge and jury of the sinking ship. And i think he even gets that he's failing. I'm convinced that Al Davis is living in 2001 (whatever year they went to the SB) and is blind to the joke of a situation he's put this team in currently.

I agree it's not the end of the world. But man, this team is just horrible.

I think this helps me make my point although I agree with some of what you are saying.

Naw, don't stereotype me

I'm done for the season. I didn't even care to wake up for the game. I hope Cable gets thrown in jail.

Go Niners lol.

This isn't hyperbole. He is the worst starting QB of all time. WHo's a biggger bust, Alex Smith or Jamarcus Russell? They are going to go down in history as the two biggests busts of all time.

Ryan Leaf is still the gold standard for me. But wow Russell sucks. Wife is a Giants fan so we watched the first half of the Giants/Raiders game today. It was embarassing. Goodell should strip the franchise from Al Davis for the good of the game. It was a travesty. CBS switched to a different game at the half.

Russell is so inaccurate.....how did that not show up in college? Terrible.

Leaf might be a gold standard, but he was at least the 2nd pick, not the first over all. And Alex Smith.. how the **** did a weak armed quarterback from a gimmick system, on a non-bcs team become the first pick. who the hell ever thought he could be an NFL qb? At least Russell is tall with a huge arm..

I've been listening a lot to ESPN radio lately and a topic that keeps coming up is that the Raiders staff all around is so bad that they can't develop new players. The college game is so different from the NFL that lots of players especially QB's need to be developed. I'm not saying Jamarcus would be good on a different team, but there is always that possibility. All of their star draft picks haven't turned out to be anything that great.

To be fair Smith was projected #1 from what I remember. The QB is the toughest position to tell if they are going to be good transitioning from college to the NFL. In my opinion it isn't worth it to ever take a QB #1.

I disagree with pretty much all of this. All positions are difficult to project... booms and busts are roughly the same for all positions.. here's a list of the first over all QB picks of the last 30 years.. sure, there are some busts on here, but there is also Elway, Manning etc.. there are more pro bowlers on this list than busts.

Stafford, russell, alex smith, eli, Palmer, Carr, Vick, Couch, peyton, bledsoe, george, Aikman, testaverde, elway.


Now, the issue currently is that first over all QB's eat up so much of your salary cap, that they are even higher risk now. But they are also the highest reward. If you get a franchise QB like manning, you can pencil yourself in for at least 10 wins a season for 10 years. I wouldn't have risked a 1st over all on a player like Smith, but I would have on Russell, he was a great talent. 15 years from now, Miami/St Louis passing on Matt ryan for Long and Long may go down as the Sam Bowie/Jordan of the NFL. QB's are just to important, you have to take the risk.

Yea there arent to many franchise QB's that have not been a top 5 pick. Brees is the only non first rounder I can think of in the last 10 years that has been very good. There are top end draft busts at every position.

I'm not saying players can't be busts at other positions. I just think it is harder to tell with QB's.

Niners sucked ass today too.

Bay area sucks right now. All we have is the Sharks and they are chokers.

Brady?

Yea hes allright. LOL

Romo, Warner and Favre also pop to mind.


But the basic point is, you're much more likely to get a great QB by drafting them high, than hoping some 5th round or free agent schub works out.

Not so fast on Romo

Even with his faults, he's still be in the upper half of the QB's I listed that were drafted first over all.

Orton's not horrible. Warner's not too shabby, either.

I get his point though. A single first overall draft pick is much more likely to be a franchise quarterback than a single undrafted quarterbacks. For every Warner there's a 1000 not Warners. I think part of the issue is that first round qb's in general ( and first over all's in particular) get such absurd contracts. I think the NFL should try and get a system like the NBA has, where rookie contracts are strictly regulated based on the draft position. THat way if you miss with a QB, it won't handcuff your team with salary cap space for years.

I agree with your first point to an extent. I think if we took a look at it, more starting QBs in the NFL would come from rounds 3-7 then 1-2.

Maybe that's because there's more QBs drafted in those rounds to be backups who see action and work their way into a starting spot or end up there by default, but I don't know.

There's an awful lot of QBs taken in the first round who end up being absolute busts.. not even serviceable NFL QBs(Akili Smith, anyone?).

I definitely agree that the NFL needs to do something about the first round money. Absolutely retarded and it gets worse each year.

1) I would be shocked if it was true that there are more NFL QB's after the first 2 rounds then in rounds 1 and 2
2) but even it it were true, I would bet, for example, that a higher percentage of first round QB's end up become above average QB's than say, 5th round QB's. And that's the point. Everyone says " oh, you don't need a first round QB, you can just draft one in the 5th round like Tom Brady.. what's the big deal"? But again, for every Brady, there are legions of late round QB's that do nothing. A 5th round Quarterback is much more likely to be your practice squad QB than he is to be your starter. You just remember Akili Smith because he makes so much more money than 5th round busts that don't get signed. And that's why I think the rookee contracts need to be brought under control.. because the penalty for missing in the first round is so high, and for a QB so much higher still.

All fair points.

I'm considering compiling the list.. I wanna know, but I don't wanna make the effort..

Don't bother, I'm crazy and OC enough that I'm doing it right now.

Awesome.

Drew Brees- 2nd round
Brady 6th
Manning 1st
Romo undrafted
Warner undrafted
Rivers 1st
rodgers 1st
McNabb 1st
Scaub 3rd
cutler 1st
palmer 1st
ryan 1st
cassel 7th
big ben 1st
eli 1st
hasselbeck 6th
Gerrard 4th
orton 4th
delhomme undrafted
edwards 3rd
flacco 1st
favre 2nd
peddington 1st
campbell 1st
Shaun hill undrafted
Quinn 1st
bulger 6th
collins 1st
russell 1st
stafford 1st
sanchez 1st
Leftwich 1st
Those were the opening day starters, I believe.. other QB's that have started this year

Kolb 2nd
anderson 6th
wallace 4th
josh johnson 5th
Boller 1st
Croyle 3rd
Cullpepper 1st
Henne 2nd


I think that's all the QBs that have started this year..

1-2 rounds: 23

3-undrafted 16.

You'll notice that there are almost more round 1 starting qb's (19) than all the other rounds combined (20)

I think this makes my point. First round QB's are higher risk (in terms of money), but they are safer risks, in terms of chance of them working out over a late draft QB. It's the higher monetary risk that I think needs to be addressed.

The question is how many of them are only starting with the "they were a 1st round pick, we paid them a ton of money" as justification?

Or "let's give them four years to see if they figure it out."

Now do this for every other position and we'll construct the ideal drafting round for each position.

Ok....go!

The only ones I think this could possibly apply to, maybe, is Cleveland and Oakland.. but in both cases, it's not like their back ups are good. Stafford and Sanchez are starting because they are good. Everyone else are established QB's. Also, Cassel is probably starting over Croyle in KC because he was a high priced free agent, not because of merit, and he wasn't a 1st round pick.

And in cleveland quinn got benched

You just locked up BigD's free time for the next two days at least. Evil.

I'll take this an anal step further.. Hall of Fame Quarterbacks...

Of active QBs, Manning, Brady, Warner and Favre are sure fire HOF (i'm not getting into a Warner debate right now, he's in). Other younger QB's like Big ben are likely to be, but I'm not going to count them Warner and Brady are post 2nd round, Favre and manning are second round, so that's 2 and 2

Aikmen 1st
Sammy Baugh 1st
Blanda 12th
Bradshaw 1st
Dutch Clark N/A ( predated the draft)
Jimmy Conzelman N/A ( predated draft)
Len Dawson 1st
Paddy Driscoll N/A (Predated Draft ( also Northwestern's own)
Elway 1st
Fouts 3rd
Benny Friedman N/A ( predates)
Otto Graham 1st
Bob Greese 1st
Arnie Herber N/A ( predates)
Sonny Jurgensen 4th
Jim Kelly 1st
Bobby Layne 1st
Sid luckman 1st
Marino 1st
Montana 3rd
Warren Moon N/A (Racism Warren was undrafted.. but I'm not counting him to the total, because the NFL were racist. If you don't like it, make your own list.. Warren Moon wasn't passed on the NFL draft due to lack of talent)
Namath 1st
Ace Parker 2nd
Bart Starr 17
Staubach 10th ( I should not count him also, because he went to west point and had to go to the army straight out of college. If he'd been allowed to go to the NFL straight out of College, he would have been a 1st round no brainer, but you're already probably pissed about moon, so I'm going to let him slide)
Tarkington 3rd
YA Tittle 1st
Unitas 9th
Norm Van Brocklin 4th
Bob Waterfield 5th
Steve Young 1st ( It was a supplmental NFL draft pick, because he was a USFL player.. but he signed in the USFL for a 10 Year 40 million contract, which was a record at the time so that leads me to believe that he was 1st round material in the NFL


Totals 17 1st-2nd
12 3rd-undrafted

Think I've proved my point. Lets stop with this clamoring for avoiding 1st round picks, in favor of bargin hunting. People bitch about 1st round busts so much because they sting so much... but the fact is, if you a Great QB, you don't HAVE to take one in the first round, but it certainly helps your chances.

Agreed.

Now.. would you agree that most teams who end up in the top 5 or so picks, typically have needs much greater than QB or no?

Of course, but nothing energizes a fanbase quicker than getting a franchise QB. Average armchair QB guy doesn't understand why you draft Orlando Pace in the first round because you don't pick linemen in the fantasy draft.

Actually, the more I think about it, it was a pretty dumb question.

Um.. it really depends.. I don't think there's any single position more important than QB in the NFL. If you have a Peyton Manning, you can pencil yourself in the playoffs and having 10 wins for a decade or so.. You obviously need things around a great QB, but a great QB can cover up other weaknesses on a team unlike any other position. Typically, most teams drafting in the bottom five do not have a franchise QB...


However, because of how much money a top five QB can cost a team to draft, a team that is rebuilding might be better off drafting a left tackle or defensive end in that costs less, and spending the saved cap space on other team needs. .I certainly can see the resource management argument. But, In terms of acutal need ( and need here is defined the amount your team will improve by adding a great player at X position) , a QB is usually the number 1 need of a bottom 5 team. As a rule of thumb, if you're a bottom 5 team, you probably wouldn't be if Peyton Manning was your Quarterback.

Case in point, the NFL draft last year..

Detroit Lions
St. Louis Rams
Kansas City Chiefs
Seattle Seahawks
New York Jets (from Cleveland)

Now, I'm not NFL personal expert, so I'm not in a position to judge the relative strengths and weaknesses of these teams, position by position, and evauate them with their other needs.. however I do know this:

The lions were in dire need of a QB, the Rams are in dire need of a QB, the Chiefs thought they were in dire need of a QB so they signed Cassel ( but it turns out they probably would have done about the same with Croyle), the seahawk's QB was injured the whole season ( and that's why they were 4th) and cleveland continues to be in dire need of a QB. The jets, who traded for cleveland's pick, were in dire need of a QB.