My husband and I are making a trip to Seattle for him to be tested to get into clinical trials for a new drug to treat his Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis. Not all of you probably know but the condition is terminal so we are hoping that 1. He gets into the trial. 2. He is one of the lucky ones to get the drug. 3. That it will do what it's supposed to do which is slow down the progression of this horrid disease.
Anyway, I know that there are people on here that pray and I'd appreciate your prayers. The rest of you, well you don't believe in prayer anyway so my asking won't do you any harm.

P.S. He's never smoked in his life so don't go assuming.

Best wishes to you both.

done.

I dont understand what you think these prayers are going to do. Even if there is a God, we obviously live in a world governed by chance. God, if real, does not interfere and help certain people over others. Tragedy strikes the just and the unjust alike. Praying wont save him. Praying wont even help him.

Wouldn't matter if he did.... suffering from any disease is a horrible thing.
Prayers are with you and your family for strength and courage.

blessings and prayers

All the best.

While you are essentially correct, there is a power to thinking positively and in gathering socially around someone who is ill to support them. It's not only beneficial to the person who is ill, but also to their family who is coping with it. I too wish this practice would happen without the supernatural part, but we should recognize what's good about it.

I hope he gets into the study, Nimue.

Well yeah, but this is an internet message board. So our prayers are kind of like jerking off to a picture of Megan Fox. Yeah, I was looking at her when I came, but I still didnt get to fuck her.

So they are a wonderful thing to be encouraged?



Oh, I see what you are saying.

But the other way they are the same is that both can make someone feel good.

I guess. But in the end, what I really want is beyond my reach.

Good luck to you, hopefully medicine can make him well.

I wish you the very best of good fortune.

Your delusion is vastly underrated, which I didn't believe was possible, if you actually believe that - IF - a God is real, then you have any idea at all how He would behave... let alone 100% certainty.

Good luck, Nimue...hope it works out.

Have you ever read The Summa Theologica, by Saint Thomas Aquinas?

Sadly, I haven't. I've heard things about Aquinas as a writer and person, but I haven't read any of his stuff. If you would recommend it, then I will try to pick it up this week.

NOTE: I had this very discussion about natural laws and 'chance', if you will, with some of my Christian friends just in the last few days. I was in the camp that felt that many things are driven by the natural order that God made. (This position of mine is obviously and clearly NOT, nor could it ever be -unless I was God himself-, 100% certain. <<-- greatest sentence ever written)

I recomend it. Read the parts about free will and the grace of god. Definetly the best parts of the book.

Trip went well. We'll not know the results of the tests for probably close to 2 weeks. If those meet the criteria of the study then he will go in for a left heart catheter (I'm not sure what this is supposed to show) which if that's good he'll be enrolled the following day. So 2 to 3 weeks from now we'll know if he's going to be accepted. Then he has a 2 in 3 chance of getting the actual medication.
Thank you all for your prayers, good wishes and blessings. They're much appreciated.

Good luck!

I'm not just spouting crap to make people think I'm a great person or anything... but I actually have been praying for you. That God would use this situation to draw you closer to Himself and whatnot. No matter what happens, God is in control and you guys can just relax and enjoy the fact that God's will, will be done.

so, if he doesnt get in to the study, and dies a painful death, is that gods will?

Dude, her husband has a terminal illness, give it a fucking rest or take it elsewhere. And, you know what, you should delete your post before she sees it. I'm sure it's not anything she hasn't thought of before, but who needs to see it floating on a computer screen? Muster up some empathy.

i cant muster what i dont have.

Fake it.

Sigh.

If God wants him in heaven, who are we to argue. I'm confident that Nimue can take much comfort in the fact that God would want her husband to hang out with him until she gets there.

Austin there at times like these I just want to smack the living shit out of you, take speedz advice please and suck it up and fake it of shut your mouth or not post here. Or at least see what Vb had stated his wisdom speaks well. It's obvious that you didn't read what he posted because others do find peace and courage or at least some fight to go on in life with some encouragement or a little faith or hope. I know with my own battle I sometimes struggle within my own faith in god, but I do appreciate the values of prayers from others and there thoughts and wishes. Maybe deep down inside I do believe but still don't ruin it for others. Let them keep positive in there beliefs because there are studies that show if you keep more positive in fighting diseases like cancer or whatever it may be, you tend to live just a little longer. If you give up, then you die sooner.



I feel sad for you Austin I truly do, someone must of hurt you pretty damn bad that you can't feel anything for anyone accept for hate. You will be one lonely person, to the day you die. but you know people will care and feel sorry for you, they will say there was a man who didn't know how to love, feel or care.



Nimue1995 you and your husband are in my prayers as well as Ozi and any one else from Fcp that goes through anything that is tragic or a sad event.

Best of luck with the tests Nimue, I hope your husband gets the medication and that it is successful.

I wish I could take comfort in that brvheart but sadly he's not a believer so I guess my prayer would be that he'd become one before God takes him. But God is far wiser than I am so I'll trust in His will regardless.

As for Suited's comment, I considered the source and dismissed it as coming from one who couldn't concieve of walking a mile in my shoes.

well.. that's a new wrinkle. (Just something else I can start praying about.) Either way, you have the correct perspective. God is in control. Maybe he's trying to draw in your extended family as well?

hope this isn't disrespectful to Nim in any way, but how exactly is god in control? you don't think the doctors or the decisions of the scientists affect the outcome here?

the danger I see with the whole "god is in control" mindset is that it can lead you to not take certain actions that could help you. getting in touch with your own influence on things, your own agency, drive, and will, is an important part of healing. the extreme version of this is christian science, but seems to me like you might have a mild form of christian-science-itis?

you're a monster, vb. A MONSTER.

That is certainly a danger. For instance... the groups in West Virginia that handle snakes and whatnot. But God can use other people, so I obviously have no problem with modern medicine and doctors, and I don't think any Christian should.

Thats all well and good. My main issue is your use of the word will. You said earlier that the "will of god will be done." Why would god want him to suffer? Why would god want his wife to suffer? Why him and not you? Or me?

The suffering and pain are part of the natural world caused by sin. God isn't causing the pain, nor does he like it. It wasn't in his plan, but our free will is instead to blame.

So it isnt gods will being done, its human will? Well then why did you say that if "god wants him in heaven, who are we to argue?"

If god doesnt have anything to do with him contracting the illness, then how can he be choosing to bring him to heaven?

And how can anything we do affect gods plan if god is infallible?

1. According to the Bible, man's free will, and choosing to disobey brought sin, pain, etc... into the world.

2. God is still all powerful and can work outside of the natural order of the world. (like when Jesus walked on water, other miracles... etc)

3. God didn't cause the illness, the current state of the natural world includes disease. (see #2)

4. Because we are not infallible and have free will. (God is omniscient, he knows the decisions that we will make, including ones that would be sinful and against his 'will' for our lives.)

exactly there are many studies to back this up. Why do you think I am fighting as hard as I am I have seen how this works one too many times. I know my prognosis yet I am determine to win and nothing will tell me otherwise.

There is science but then nothing beats human nature and will power.



what's the matter Austin can't handle reality or his wisdom

I've seen in my life too many times where my will would have been the wrong choice to discount God's will in all this. I still pray and it could well be that the only way that Glenn will come to believe in Jesus is for him to have to go through this. And I'd rather he go through this and become a believer than healed and remain a non-believer. God knows when it's time for him to die just as He does with all of us. And that time won't come any sooner or later than it's appointed time. Does this mean I don't want him to fight the disease with every tool available to us? Hell, no! He's actually been the one that keeps trying to give up and I keep on nagging, pushing, prodding him to keep going and keep trying. It took basically a family intervention just to get him to apply for this clinical study.
But then God is pretty much in control of whether or not he gets the actual drug or the placebo. Since it's a double blind study, no doctor or scientist is going to know either. So it's my belief it's up to God. You might say it's up to luck but I don't believe there's any such thing. God is in control all the way (including the poker table though I wouldn't be as Jerry Yang and bring it up every play,lol). But God also doesn't want us just standing around waiting for Him to act. It's much easier to guide us when we're moving than when we're standing still. I only buy one lottery ticket per drawing because it's my belief that's all it takes if God wants me to win. But I still have to do my part and buy the ticket.
So now we'll really have a free-for-all,lol. I knew there was a reason I'd not ventured on here much lately.

None of you people arguing this "god's will" thing will be able to step outside of your cult-thinking to see it, but you are not making any sense whatsoever.

The contradiction in every "god's will" "human sin" "free will" babble-post is blatant and really silly.

Not going to happen with me Spademan. I've seen God move in my life too much to doubt His existence. And I've seen what would have been the result of some of my desires had He given them to me and I wouldn't have wanted it that way once I got sight of the bigger picture. Having seen that in my past, I can trust Him with my future. Again it doesn't mean I just sit back and let God do it. I do what I can within my human ability. But if I find myself blocked at every juncture from something that I desire then I know there's something wrong with it and try moving in another direction. But still moving. And I know you won't get it because you won't let yourself believe in Him. Therefore trying to explain it to you is a pretty useless endeavor. Which again is why I don't venture on here very often.

Naw ugh... you're the really silly one.

Here's the problem with this anecdotal and common place statement you've provided, that I hear all the time from religious people: every person who believes in any god has the same story.

Whether it's Allah, or Jehovah, or Zeus, or whatever-the-fuck-it-is that Scientology believes in... they all have this personal relationship with their man in the sky. All of them. All of them get the warm fuzzy feelings. All of them have been "changed for the better" by their superstition's particular deity.

All of them will also claim that I won't ever understand their god, because I don't believe in him.

Interesting, isn't it, that in order to believe in your particular god that I must first believe in your particular god?

That kind of nonsense is not unique to you and is really just putting the cart before the horse.

Reminds me of this cartoon.

Click to view attachment

God is all powerful and omnipresent and everything is part of his plan.

Free will is outside of God's power.

Free will is part of God's plan.

Bad events are a result of sin and not a result of God.

Yet, when someone dies in a car wreck or something, it is part of his plan and God just wanted him in heaven, so it's all good.

I am not making sense.

Your powerful retort aside, you cannot escape the palm-on-face absurdity of your contradiction riddled nonsense concerning God, his plans, free will and sin.

The most important point you made was wrong. Also, and this is admittedly my fault, plan isn't a good word, and simply confused the whole point. Since God lives outside of time, and he already knows all the choices that we will make, then it's not his 'plan' per se... especially since our wrong choices will never 'surprise' him.

Also, 'bad events' is too general, so I'm not sure what you mean. Like hurricanes? no. Like getting AIDS from a hooker? yes.

Car Wreck example: I was more trying to be comforting, and not really trying to make a theological point. Theologically, I would say that the car wreck was a natural part of life, and that God will end up using the situation for his good. That could include many of the following items:

Softening the hearts of family and friends
Softening the hearts of co-workers
bringing new opportunities to the spouse or children
anything else that your creative mind could come up with....

So the actual car wreck wasn't 'caused' by God, but instead, will be 'used' by God.

If you have a Bible, read Romans... specifically Romans 8, 9, and 10.

It's hard to see how something you initiated, knowing exactly what every detailed consequence would be, is not a plan.





oh, and Xenu.

Well, that's why I used the word... but it also could imply that sin was his choice or his plan... which would obviously be incorrect. That's why 'plan' should have been replaced with a better word.

irrelevant. changing perspective to "outside" of time doesn't change the logical fact that events still have to be fixed
within time for god to be omniscient. if events in time are fixed there is no true free will.

I think the definition of 'fixed' would be pretty important here.

No, sir.

What is important is that the things you believe contradict other things you believe.

The only way out is either: 1. "well, fuzzy definitions yadda yadda yadda", which is just people in your position refusing to be clear in their statements because they either consciously or subconsciously know there is inherent contradiction in the nonsense they attach themselves too, or 2. "Yes, it is impossible to OUR logic, but GOD is waaaayyyy smarter lol lol." Which is, of course, an attempt at a get out of jail free card.

Unfortunately, when it comes to logic, that card doesn't play... because no god, yours or any other, no devil or ghost, no alien, on this planet or on any other, in heaven or in hell, can ever make two logical contradictions exist simultaneously.

Anyone who disagrees with the latter is either lying to protect their position, woefully ignorant about the processes and structure of the faculty that allows them to live and pragmatically exist in society, or insane.