CaneBrain
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009, 9:01 PM
So, I got invited to a home game with a bunch of orthodox jews over in Miami Beach. Friend of a friend thing. We played a 100 dollar, 7 player freezeout which was uneventful for me. Afterwards, they started up a 1/2 NL cash game with a max buy in of 500 dollars. Most of them bought in for only 300 however. I bought in for 400 (because that is all I had on me I was not expecting such a big game).
Anyway a couple of hands came up.
1) I am upto about 440. Villain has 280 or so. I am on the button with 88. Folds to Villain in MP who raises to 10 (very standard raise preflop in this game). I call. BB calls. Flop comes 754. BB checks, MP (who seems to be incredibly laggy) fires 20. What is my play?
Hypothetically, I call and BB folds. The turn is a 4. MP bets 35. Hero does?
Hypothetically, I call. River is a 9. MP checks. Hero?
2) I am at 580 or so. Two villains. One has 475 and is very loose (SB). One has 320 and plays solid ABC poker (button).
I get dealt Qc9c in the cutoff. I raise to 10. (fold preflop instead?)
Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.
Flop is Jd10c4s. SB checks, I bet 25, button calls, SB calls.
Turn is a 2c. SB checks, hero?
Assume hero checks and button bets 40. SB calls. Hero calls.
River is a 8s. Obviously, I hit gin. SB checks. Do I ever risk a slowplay here and check? If I bet, how much?
tskillz187
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009, 9:15 PM
Call, bet, bet pot.
I think the turn being a 9 is the most interesting one. You can fold to a c/r which is gay but he really only has set/2pr/straights then and it'd kinda suck to check back and let a horrible river come or have to guess when he bets even if it is a blank. By betting turn you get value form his pair + draw hands imo.
That river card in hand 2 isn't the best card for villain to bet river into 2 opponents. Even though not many draws made it, it puts a couple more two pair combos out there and I don't know anything about how thin villain is value towning river. I'd bet river really big and hope to get looked up by 2pr type hands. I also think checking turn is decent, cuz that 2 really doesn't change anything. If I felt button was going to bet if checked to though, I might fire a second barrel.
rrumsey
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 4:58 AM
#2. no you can't risk not getting value when you chase the straight he could have a set or 2 pair or overplay a jack into you so fire and hope you get reraised, like 1/2 to 2/3 pot. You could have folded preflop but q9s is decent for a cutoff raise. My c-bet on flop would have been bigger, at least 30 and maybe 35 or 40, i don't know about the turn play as played the small flop bet let a lot of hands float around so check call, check fold, check raise, could have all been legit options depends on your reads of these players and if the would ever fold a medium jack or not. Also we could run into two pair j10 a decent amount so when we hit gin we fire a good size he has raised 2 streets in a row if you bet 1/2 pot he may stick in a reraise with JJ, 10's, j10 and since we chased he probably doesn't put us on the gapper to easily
Jadaki
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 7:19 AM
#2 I hate checking that turn when you add a backdoor flush draw to your hand. Especially against passive players. If they were being aggressive then I like a check call sometimes, but I hate giving up the lead there.
Dubey
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 8:04 AM
1.) I play it the same and check river. If there was a flush draw on the flop, I might try a thin value bet and get him to make a hero call, but as is, the only missed draw is a naked 6 so it'll be tough for him to justify a call with worse.
2.) definitely do not fold preflop (I assume it folded to you), I play it the same preflop. I fire a second barrel on the turn, definitely. As played, I fire 3/4 pot on river. If he wasn't bluffing the turn, the river is not a terrible card for him, and we can't risk a check-through.
KingJames
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 11:18 AM
QUOTE (Jadaki @ Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 7:19 AM)

#2 I hate checking that turn when you add a backdoor flush draw to your hand. Especially against passive players. If they were being aggressive then I like a check call sometimes, but I hate giving up the lead there.
+1
And lead the river for a nice value bet
mtdesmoines
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 9:49 PM
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, 12:01 AM)

So, I got invited to a home game with a bunch of orthodox jews over in Miami Beach. Friend of a friend thing. We played a 100 dollar, 7 player freezeout which was uneventful for me. Afterwards, they started up a 1/2 NL cash game with a max buy in of 500 dollars. Most of them bought in for only 300 however. I bought in for 400 (because that is all I had on me I was not expecting such a big game).
Anyway a couple of hands came up.
1) I am upto about 440. Villain has 280 or so. I am on the button with 88. Folds to Villain in MP who raises to 10 (very standard raise preflop in this game). I call. BB calls. Flop comes 754. BB checks, MP (who seems to be incredibly laggy) fires 20. What is my play?
Hypothetically, I call and BB folds. The turn is a 4. MP bets 35. Hero does?
Hypothetically, I call. River is a 9. MP checks. Hero?
check behind
2) I am at 580 or so. Two villains. One has 475 and is very loose (SB). One has 320 and plays solid ABC poker (button).
I get dealt Qc9c in the cutoff. I raise to 10. (fold preflop instead?)
opening w this hand here is great
Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.
Flop is Jd10c4s. SB checks, I bet 25, button calls, SB calls.
Turn is a 2c. SB checks, hero?
Assume hero checks and button bets 40. SB calls. Hero calls.
River is a 8s. Obviously, I hit gin. SB checks. Do I ever risk a slowplay here and check? If I bet, how much?
Gah. Never ever slowplay here. This is a $150+ pot and we make them pay to play for it. Depending on how station-ey they are, I'm betting somewhere between $90 and $150. If one of them is a cop, I might overbet.
CaneBrain
Thursday, July 23rd, 2009, 8:36 PM
A few more hands from this session:
I have about 845. Villain (laggy but wont 3 or 4 bet without something) has 590. Villain 2 (good player, unpredictable) has 750. We have been playing for about 3 hours and the action is picking up.
(7 handed still) I am in the BB. Villain 1 is UTG+1 and raises to 8. Folds to Villain 2 in SB who raises to 25. I have AsKs. {Fold? Raise? Call?}
Assume I just call and Villain 1 also calls. Flop is 8s3s3h. Villain 2 bets out 40. Hero?
Assume Hero raises to 115. Villain 1 folds. Vill 2 calls rather quickly.
Turn is a Kd. Vill 2 checks. Hero?
Assume hero checks behind.
River is a 4c. Vill 2 bets 140. Hero?
SwolyswoND
Thursday, July 23rd, 2009, 9:15 PM
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Friday, July 24th, 2009, 12:36 AM)

A few more hands from this session:
I have about 845. Villain (laggy but wont 3 or 4 bet without something) has 590. Villain 2 (good player, unpredictable) has 750. We have been playing for about 3 hours and the action is picking up.
(7 handed still) I am in the BB. Villain 1 is UTG+1 and raises to 8. Folds to Villain 2 in SB who raises to 25. I have AsKs. {Fold? Raise? Call?}
Assume I just call and Villain 1 also calls. Flop is 8s3s3h. Villain 2 bets out 40. Hero?
Assume Hero raises to 115. Villain 1 folds. Vill 2 calls rather quickly.
Turn is a Kd. Vill 2 checks. Hero?
Assume hero checks behind.
River is a 4c. Vill 2 bets 140. Hero?
I think this hand is played about as well as possible, assuming you call the river (I see little value in a raise). Flop raise is mandatory, and I like the sizing. Turn check is perfect, as 44-77 and 99-QQ aren't calling another barrel here, and you don't get c/r by 88 or 3x. Your turn check induced a river bet from villain, and I think you crush his range here, so folding is never ever an option. I don't see what worse hands can call a raise though.
Dubey
Thursday, July 23rd, 2009, 9:36 PM
yeah, I like your line in this hand. AKs plays reasonably well against mlutiple opponents, and I'd rather not bloat the pot oop when we are this deep with a 4-bet.
I play it the same and call the river. I might raise a bit more on the flop though, $140 or so.
tskillz187
Thursday, July 23rd, 2009, 9:39 PM
I think if you are flatting preflop (which I think is okay, but I think I like making it $70 a little more) then you should be flatting the flop. If he shoves over your flop bet you're gonna immediately regret your raise. You're realllllllllllllllly deep here and you probably have to fold to a shove. I think if you chose to play it passive/safe on preflop you need to keep this pot manageable.
Like once you raise the flop, gl, because you need to chuck three barrels and be ready to bluff your stack if you miss to try and get him to fold all of his one pair hands. If you're just raising flop then checking back turns that miss you I think it's a big mistake.
You have to call river here and hope he just turned his whatever he has into a bluff, or that you're chopping, cuz you really aren't beating anything in his value range.
I think shoving river is kind of cool/sick because he should be folding AA to a shove and definitely fold AK, so you're really only worried that he has KK, but it's not everyone's taste to just go balls out like that.
CaneBrain
Friday, July 24th, 2009, 3:38 PM
QUOTE (SwolyswoND @ Thursday, July 23rd, 2009, 9:15 PM)

I think this hand is played about as well as possible, assuming you call the river (I see little value in a raise). Flop raise is mandatory, and I like the sizing. Turn check is perfect, as 44-77 and 99-QQ aren't calling another barrel here, and you don't get c/r by 88 or 3x. Your turn check induced a river bet from villain, and I think you crush his range here, so folding is never ever an option. I don't see what worse hands can call a raise though.
I thought for 30 seconds and called and he also showed AK. Chop, chop.
I have no idea what he was doing on the flop. I guess he was planning to try and take it away and then hit top pair on the turn. In fairness, he was a good enough player (from what I saw) to be floating with the intention to steal the pot away later.
CaneBrain
Friday, July 24th, 2009, 8:02 PM
Alright, moving onto a new subject....
I play a good buddy of mine from law school heads up a lot. We play heads up 5 dollar freezeouts. My friend is a strong player who consistently beats .25/.50 NLHE HU (deep) on Full Tilt. He is a classic TAG in full ring situation (we have played a lot of law school 6-8 person freeze-outs in the past) but he can be very creative short handed.
He also knows me well. He knows that I am laggy full ring so my heads up game is correspondingly laggier. I am up in the series overall but not by much. I dont think he has any true tells on me and I dont have any on him.
Anyway, so we played a couple rounds the other night and some hands came up that I want to ask about. I hope this is an ok place for to ask heads up questions.
Format is we each start with 1500 chips. Blinds start at 10/20 and go up every ten minutes.
Few minutes in (Hand 1):
Blinds 10/20
Me (t1600)
Villain (t1400)
I am in the SB (on the button) and I have JJ. Obviously I am raising but what is a good bet size with jacks?
Assume I raise to 80. Villain calls.
Flop is Q72. Vill checks. My bet size? Do I even consider checking?
Assume I bet 130. Vill smooth calls quickly.
Turn is 9. Vill checks. Hero?
Assume Hero checks.
River is a K. Vill checks. Hero?
tskillz187
Friday, July 24th, 2009, 8:31 PM
Keep your raise sizing consistent, unless he's retarded, which he doesn't seem to be. So you should raise the same with JJ as you would with J5.
I think the bet/check/river play line in poker is a really bad line with a weak made hand. I would rather bet flop, bet turn, check river. But my favorite line would be to check flop, bet turn, bet river. Or if he bets turn you call, call river. You want to get two streets of value here against the weakest range that villain can hold. I think your line gives villain the strongest range he can hold.
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